Well if the bill isn’t socialist, it’s fascist. It doesn’t put health care providers and insurers under government ownership, just government management.

Since the government will control the health loss ratio and ban exclusions for insurers, “private insurance” will exist only as far as names on pieces of paper. The government will set rates and payments, choose customers, and determine the profits or losses of the companies.

By breaking centuries old actuarial principles, there will really be no insurance. It will simply become a money exchange which the government’s own rules dictate will become ineffecient and untenable. Bailouts will be needed, the pressure for savings will begin. Government bureaucrats will begin to dictate terms of treatment and decide who gets the increasingly scarce resources. Oh look, death panels.

This bill has never been about insuring people. That’s why it doesn’t start for years, leaves millions uninsured, guts Medicare, and may or may not inculde a public option at the whim of the Democrats. That’s why the populist liberals like Kucinich bailed, and why more moderate Dems are having to be bribed and threatened. Only the fascist wing of the Democrat Party wants this bill because it sacrifices th well-being of the entire country for no purpose other than the concentration of power in the Executive Branch of government.

Posted by Jack Schite
2010-03-16 11:28:19

Figured that would get you moving to do some damage control, Jack. Be sure to keep using the word “ignorant” while providing no evidence. It makes you look really smart.

What? I thought this bill was dead last summer because people went down to townhalls and screamed that they refused to part with Medicare for socialized medicine.

With the Armageddon Card is played, we know that you are smelling defeat.

I’ll take HCR over the Gitmo-closing, Stan.

“With the Armageddon Card is played, we know that you are smelling defeat.”

Sure vega. The bill wasn’t passed in July, August, September, October, November, December, January, or February…but victory is right around the corner!

“I’ll take HCR over the Gitmo-closing, Stan.”

Spoken like a true liberal. Handouts over justice right? Who cares if people rot in prison forever, give me my freebies! Vega is entitled to the fruits of the labor of others. All that Gitmo crap was just about Bush Bashing to win an election.

I didn’t I say I didn’t care about people languishing in our custody without due process. Don’t project.

I said I would take HCR before Gitmo closing.

All of the things will happen – HCR, Gitmo closing, Immig Reform, Bank Regulatory Reform, Tax Reform, and Education Reform.

America Would Never Be The Same

And that’s a good thing.

Posted by Realpolitik
2010-03-16 13:29:11

Do you get tired of hating on your country? Your free to leave.

There’s nothing free about me…
Posted by Realpolitik 2010-03-16 13:37:53

The fact that you are a whore surprises NO ONE!

“All of the things will happen – HCR, Gitmo closing, Immig Reform, Bank Regulatory Reform, Tax Reform, and Education Reform.”

About 30% of the way through Obama’s term and the only thing he’s “reformed” is the National Debt Clock…by adding a decimal place.

But he has played an awful lot of golf.

The President has been more engaged in this healthcare debate than any President in recent memory, while managing an economic crisis and two wars.

Posted by D-Vega 2010-03-16 13:51:19

Yeah, Obama has MANAGED to make the economy worse since he took office.

Nice job!

“I know you chuckle with glee at the delay when all you seek is the President to fail, with America following.”

Considering all Obama has proven capable of doing is wasting taxpayer’s money, his failure seems to be the country’s greatest option for prosperity.

The economy will not recover until Obama utters the words “health care reform has failed”, and it’s the irresponsible running amok of the Democrats that has extended and deepened the recession. Nobody can make plans to expand their businesses or hire employees because this bill will have such a vast impact on every aspect of American life and commerce.

Want to make a friendly wager on the passage of the bill, vega? I understand if you don’t…we all remember what happened when you said the Porkulus bill would reduce unemployment. How embarassing for you.

Want to make a friendly wager on the passage of the bill, vega?

What’s the wager, Mike?

I understand if you don’t…we all remember what happened when you said the Porkulus bill would reduce unemployment. How embarassing for you.

The job losses have steadily gone down over the past year. The last 2 quarters of the Bush admin we were losing 500-700K jobs a month. You can’t make that up so quickly.

Posted by D-Vega 2010-03-16 14:10:44

If we pass this bill, Unemployment won’t go above 8.5%
Bill Passes
Unemployment goes into double digits.

And you are defending this, Vega?

DV you said “The last 2 quarters of the Bush admin we were losing 500-700K jobs a month. You can’t make that up so quickly.”

The last 2 quarters of the Bush Administrtion were the 3rd (July 08 – Sep 08) and the 4th (Oct 08 – Dec 08) quarters.

During that time we did not lose 500-700k jobs per month.

Care to re-phrase? You need to choose your words more carefully, really draw on that 2 digit iq of yours and write an accurate statement for once.

This is just too easy.

All of the things will happen – health care take over, harm to national security and needless pandering, illegal alien/criminal amnesty, attack on the banking system, Tax increases for everyone, especialy the most productive, and further harm to our already deeply flawed public school system.
Posted by D-Vega
2010-03-16 13:25:37

There, fixed it for you! You are welcome.
But seriously, if even half of those actually occur there will a huge political bloodbath in November and Chimpy will most likely be a one term president.

“Right side”, my ass. The majority of your fellow countrymen would disagree.

and….

C’mon Dude. Remember who you are dealing with please.
Posted by D-Vega
2010-03-16 14:27:29

Ummm, a foolish and naive leftist?

The others come later, and more will be planned for Obama’s second term.
Posted by D-Vega
2010-03-16 14:40:13

That’s going to hard to acomplish with a hostile congress countering anything he tries ala post ’94 Clinton. Do you think that Chimpy will have the same common sense that Clinton did and moderate his tone and generally move a bit toward the center as Clinton did, or will his ago get in the way?

I think a reversal in congressional control or at the very least a big reduction in Dem majorities in both houses are unavoidable now due to the backlash over the health care debacle. But I’m not ready to say with certainty that Chimpy will be voted out in 2012 no matter what happens. Not only will he still have a fawning press who will ingore all of his many failings and the White guilt/reverse Bradly effect votes going for him, but I’m not certain the Republicans will run a decent candidate. If he continues to go down the road he is, I suspect he may be gone, but I’m far from 100% certain.

First of all, murray, you have to face the fact that people voted for Obama on merits of his ideas. Not because of any guilt factors. The Bradley Effect was a meme from first thought. So was Operation Chaos. And the PUMAs. All myths.

Obama won. And the Dems won. Accept it.

Two, there is a HUGE uphill battle to gain control of the House. Less with the Senate, but both still unlikely.

HCR is the most important thing to pass. Even if it costs some pols some jobs. Let the chips fall where they may.

“Biggers stakes, Mike.”

I never promised to lie, that’s your hallmark. The unemployment bet was me changing my name to “Mike_M_was_wrong”.
My best offer this time is “bao jian”…Chinese for “health care”. They’re the ones that are going to be financing Obamacare anyways even after our taxes skyrocket.

But you entitlement babies never stop do you? Offered something in exchange for nothing and it’s still not good enough. More demands! More giveaways! Gimme gimme gimme!

First of all, murray, you have to face the fact that people voted for Obama on merits of his ideas. Not because of any guilt factors. The Bradley Effect was a meme from first thought. So was Operation Chaos. And the PUMAs. All myths.

Please.
While I’m certainly sure that some people did vote for chimpy because of his beliefs, there is a sizable number who did so because of who he was in spite of his beliefs. How else can you explain the defections of black conservatives if not for ethnic loyalty and identity politics.

Chimpy won because of the following factors in particular order:
-the press was totally in bed with him. Remember the SNL skit that showed them offering him a pillow and being hard on Hillary? That was funny because it had the ring of truth and really was not that big of an exageration.
-The press and the left pushed the “if your not voting for obama, you are a racist” angle. they were doing it all along, but in the closing days of the election I saw the “is Obama too black to win” type article all over the internet, including getting pront page coverage on yahoo and MSm news sites on almost a daily basis.
-A sort of “reverse Bradly effect” aka White guilt. Many people probably voted for him just so they could say to themselves “I voted for the black guy, so I’m not an evil racist after all”. Chame on the left and the media for creating that sort of enviorment.
-Dissatisfaction with a highly unpular president and a weak Republican candidate who many saw (incorrectly mind you) of bieng more of the same.
-John McCain running such a lackluster campaign that I almost suspect that he “threw” the election. he didn’t of course. But he sure didn’t try very hard.

Obama won. And the Dems won. Accept it.

Your right. They won and I accept it. I don’t like it one bit, but I accept it. We on the right are the relality based community unlike you “heads in the clouds” leftists.

Two, there is a HUGE uphill battle to gain control of the House. Less with the Senate, but both still unlikely

I think given Chimpy and his congress’s records that it’s far less of a battle than you think. I mean nothing is a sure thing and November is a long way off. But Chimpy is going down the same route Clinton did and the table is being set for a repeat of ’94.
But play along with me for a second here. if i’m right and pst 2010 the president faces the same situation that Clinton did, will he also follow clinton’s lead in moderating his tone?
I’m not sure he will or can. Thus if that occurs, he’s going to be real lame duck and will just seal his eventual fate as a one term failed president.

HCR is the most important thing to pass. Even if it costs some pols some jobs. Let the chips fall where they may.

I’m going to remind you of that statement after the politically suicidal rush toward this healthcare abomination causes huge damage to the Dems….and I’ll gloat. I’m nice that way..

Vega,

So you admit Obama is still fighting the wars that your side screamed about over and over we can’t win, bring the troops home and Obama even campained on it and beat Hillary who you supported by saying he would pull the troops out of Iraq immediately while Hillary backed off from saying that, saying she would wait to be more informed basically.

So Obama lied and yet now you trust him with this healthcare bill?Them troops are still in Iraq and so much progress has been made that Obama could’nt pull them out.Yet all we heard from your side and the mainstream media is how we can’t win and are losing and need to bring the troops home.

They were wrong and you know it but yet you still trust them to tell you the truth about healthcare?Why Vega?

This is one of many reasons why I know the mainstream news media cannot be trusted and this kindof stuff has been going on for years. And yet somehow it is like you like to be fooled, you like to be decieved. Your lib buddies were spewing the same tripe the mainstream media was so why the trust Vega? You know they have lied or at the very least been wrong so why the trust?

This is not about political parties this is about lies that were told.I will never understand how you can put so much trust in a government led by libs who lie over and over with the mainstream media helping opush the lies and yet you trust them.You think they are right about this healthcare bill?Or is it another lie to trick you for your support?

Could it be possible that the reason Democrats have lost support of this healthcare bill is that americans even democrat leaning people realized the lies that were told and now don’t trust Obama,the government and the media?Face it, it is not just conservatives against this bill even democrat leaning americans who voted for Obama are.Face it most people are not in the know about politics but voted for Obama after hearing all the tripe against Buah and Iraq and how we can’t win,etc and yet Obama is doing basically the same thing Bush did trying to make us think he’s fighting it even better than the way Bush did.Maybe they are waking up and perhaps even joined the tea party too.Maybe not but at the very least they realize now they were lied to when they voted for Obama.

America Would Never Be The Same

And that’s a good thing.

Posted by Realpolitik
2010-03-16 13:29:11

Wow; that’s amazing. They usually try so hard to mask their hatred for America.

What more is there to say then this about CrappyCare aka ObamaCare/WillardCare:

http://spectator.org/blog/2010/03/16/romneycare-bankrupting-massach

“Massachusetts, Obamacare Will Do the Same Nationally
By W. James Antle, III on 3.16.10 @ 4:36PM

Massachusetts Treasurer Tim Cahill, who is running for governor as an independent this year, has come out swinging against the Democratic health care bill based on a similar experiment in Massachusetts. Yesterday Obama adviser David Axelrod cited “Masscare” as a model for Obamacare.

That’s exactly the problem, says Cahill. He told CNBC that such a plan would “wipe out the American economy within four years.” He was quoted by the Boston Globe as saying, “It is time for the president, the Democratic leadership, to go back to the drawing board and come up with a new plan that does not threaten to bankrupt this country.”

Of course the Democrats know this will implode the HC system – that the intent, create govt dependency and control and thus perpetual power.