Liveblogging Obama’s Healthcare Speech

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Liveblogging Obama’s Healthcare Speech

Written By : John Hawkins

At 8 PM EST tonight, I will be liveblogging Barack Obama’s address to a joint session of Congress. Make sure to head back over to RWN as you watch the address and comment on what BO has to say in the comments section.

Alternately, you can just skip the speech, watch me liveblog it, and miss “change, myths, lie, unity, some people say, lie, masked shot at the GOP, lie, let me be clear, lie” and then Chris Matthews intoning that this was one of the President’s best speeches yet.

2:59: Judging by the talking points, Obama looks like he’s going to try to shift the focus of the debate from the plan to those mean old Republicans who won’t go along with him. Do they want people to suffer? Is Sarah Palin a bad person?

If so, that’s a dumb strategy. If Obama has his own plan that he’s going to release with lots of details, that would be one thing. But, more of the same “everybody who says there is anything bad in this is lying, hurry up and pass it” nonsense isn’t going to do that much for them.

They’re the ones who want to swallow the health care system and start rationing care when the country thinks they should be focused on the economy and job loses. Given that, the country has, with good reason, very little faith in the government’s ability to handle something like this. “Trust us, it’s a good idea” isn’t going to get it done for them at this point.

8:01: I’ve seen an excerpt of this speech. From what I saw, this is NOT going to be helpful for him. It essentially looks like Obama refusing to address any of the serious concerns people have and imperiously demanding that this bill be passed because he says so. Course, it was just an excerpt. But, early reading — this was a mistake.

8:07: Because I am a masochist, I am watching this on MSNBC. According to Keith Olbermann, this is a massive stand against the corporations! Of course, many of the corporations are on board with this because they’ll get more customers.

8:09: Rachel Maddow — The protests were nuts. Keith: Nuts works, doesn’t it? I think Keith would know.

8:11: It’s Bo time!

8:12: Obama is such a performer. If Will Smith were playing the President, that’s how he would walk down the hall shaking hands.

8:13: John Boehner kissed Hillary on the cheek. My Gawd, the horror! And it was right after she gave Obama the big fake smile!

8:15: Okie-dokie — speech time!

8:16: A little too much enthusiastic clapping here. What has he done worth a standing ovation?

8:17: We were about to go into the Depression until I came into office. Now, I am pro-jobs. That’ll show all those anti-jobs lobbyists.

8:18: We have pulled the economy back from the brink. Ah…ok.

8:19: It has been a century since Roosevelt called for healthcare reform. Doesn’t sound like much of an emergency, does it?

8:21: We are the only nation that doesn’t have socialized medicine. We have the largest, most powerful economy in the world. Coincidence? Not at all.

8:22: When your pity cases for insurance are people who didn’t report conditions to their insurance companies, that’s not a good sign.

8:23: Obama is making a mistake here. He is trying to make the case that we need health care reform. Americans agree with that. They don’t like the Democrats’ plans.

8:24: Our health care problem is our deficit problem. Course, the Democrat program would increase the costs.

8:26: Why, his program isn’t radical! Not at all. That’s crazy talk!

8:27: Obama is using drug companies supporting his plan as a plus? That’s interesting. Heck of a switch around.

8:27: The time for bickering is over. Do as I say!

8:28: Health care will be secure. Everyone will have health care. It will be cheap!

8:29: Goody! Details!

8:30: Insurance companies can’t turn you down if you’re sick. They also can’t drop you if you lie about your coverage or place any kind of cap on how much coverage you get. He might as well be promising unicorns and faeries.

8:31: Routine check-ups will be covered. How dumb do people have to be to believe this?

8:32: There will be an insurance exchange like Congress has. Will Congress be participating? Uh…no.

8:33: The exchange will happen in 4 years? But, we will immediately give you low cost insurance if you get sick.

8:34: Some people will decide not to get covered. Some companies may decide not to cover their workers. Those companies are bad people!

8:35: Individuals will be required to carry health care. Businesses will have to pay more taxes. Most small businesses will be exempt (Sure, they will. Bwahahah)

8:36: There are significant details to be ironed out (Laughter). Ouch.

8:37: There’s a lot of misinformation out there. I would note that he gave no real details.

8:37: Why, there are no death panels! That’s crazy talk. Republicans aren’t applauding. Bwahahaha!

8:38: This reform won’t insure illegals. Someone shouted “lie!” Love it! Bam!

8:38: No $ will go to fund abortion. Not true either. Lying.

8:39: My guiding principle is there should be choice and competition. In 34 states, 75% of the market is at 5 or fewer companies. Course, we could allow insurance companies from different states to compete. Republicans have been suggesting that over and over. We don’t need a public option to do that.

8:41: Obama just wants reform. Oh, well, if he just wants reform, that must be all right then.

8:41: He wants a public option — “let me be clear” that means lie coming — only 5% of Americans would sign up for public option? Then how is it going to provide competition across the country? How could a government option compete with private companies if it had to genuinely compete? It’s not possible.

8:43: So, if the public option is such a small inconsequential thing, why is it so important to Obama and the Left? It’s tiny, it’s insignificant, only 5% of people will use it — BUT WE HAVE TO HAVE IT!

8:44: Again, I will not back down on the public option. How does that gel with the fact that it is going to barely be used?

8:45: How do we pay for this? I will not sign a plan that adds one dime to our deficits now or in the future. (These is no such plan on the table).

8:46: Go ahead and clap for deficits during the Bush years. We deserve that. But Obama, this biggest spender ever, won’t make that mistake.

8:47: We’re going to pay for much of this plan by cutting waste and abuse. Does anybody believe that? Anybody? If so, why haven’t we cut it already?

8:48: Oh well, if we create a commission, I’m sure that will fix the waste.

8:49: There are scary stories about how your Medicare will be cut! I will protect Medicare! Except, his plan expressly cuts Medicare spending. Deeply. Dramatically.

8:50: Is there anybody who believes Barack Obama’s commission is going to fix health care costs? This is like insulting. Not just to political junkies, but even to dumb people.

8:51: So, health care is essentially going to be “free.” They’re going to pay for it by cutting waste and by having insurance companies pay extra.

8:53: Obama likes the idea of tort reform. So, he’s going to study it or something.

8:54: We will pay for the plan with money ill spent in our system already.

8:54: This is a bipartisan plan and I will continue to seek common ground. My door is always open! Course, he hasn’t talked to House Republicans since April.

8:55: Look out for those special interests! We will fight back against the status quo!

8:55: Our system is not good now. We know this to be true. That is why we cannot fail to make things much worse with this plan.

8:57: Wait, I was looking away. Is he trying to exploit Ted Kennedy’s death to pitch this bomb of a health care plan? Ugh. What a terrible way to end this speech.

8:57: Did President Government just laud America’s skepticism of government? During a tribute to Ted Kennedy?

8:59: Ted Kennedy wasn’t a rigid ideologue! No, that’s crazy talk!

9:00: Ted could imagine what it was like for people without insurance. He felt for those people! Too bad he didn’t feel for women left to drown to death in a car.

9:00: Making a big spiel about how wonderful Social Security and Medicare are. Course, those are the two programs that are breaking us now. They’re also the ones that Obama says we need to fix.

9:01: The danger of too much government is matched by the government of too little. Actually, that’s not true at all.

9:02: Many Americans are skeptical. Why, it would be safe to kick the can down the road. I am courageous! I didn’t come here to fear the future. We can act! Change! Hope! We are the ones we’ve been waiting for!

Summary: My initial impression was that this speech is not going to be helpful to Obama. At best, I think it may give him a short, temporary burst. But, it was too generic, too much of the same old, same old. Much of it was laughable. We’re going to pay for the plan by cutting waste. Do it for Ted, blah, blah. Obama needed a game changer here. Although his delivery was good, it was tired rhetoric. Grade: D-

Update #1: I am hearing, but not knowing for sure, that Joe Wilson was the one who yelled “liar.” Not sure though. Someone mentioned Louie Gohmert as well. We should know soon.

PS: The stuff about the insurance companies was pure magical thinking. You can’t run an insurance industry when people can’t be denied coverage after they get sick and can’t be dropped if they lie about conditions. It’s not real world.

Update #2: I applaud Joe Wilson for yelling “you liar” at Barack Obama. Yes, it was rude, but Obama was lying through his teeth and he has been doing it for over a month. If that’s what it takes to draw attention to the fact when so much of the mainstream media simply refuses to report it, so be it. The Democrats, as a block, pulled those kind of shenanigans when Bush was President; so why should we get upset because one Republican told the God’s honest truth? I’m glad Joe Wilson had the courage to stand up and draw attention to what was going on.

http://thrive.today.com thriveblog

I won't miss it!

-thrive blog author
http://thrive.today.com
Mike_M

Here's my pre-blog:

Obama will announce the same tired plan that the American people have rejected, but make a couple meaningless compromises for the sake of "bipartisanship" while retaining 95% of the original bill.

The propaganda ministry will hail it as a great victory and brilliant move, propose that all future photos of Obama will have a halo around his head, and declare the debate over and that only extremists and racists oppose it.

A week from now, the Dems will announce a major rewrite of the bill and will quietly kill it in committee after Obama's numbers have dropped another 3-4 points.
http://conservativebootcamp.com martinhale

Fortunately, I have two UEFA Champions League games on the DVR that I've been saving for a night when Mr. Obama co-opts the teevee. But even though I won't be shouting at my teevee, I'll be sending mental energy Mr. Obama's way encouraging him to wrap his head around a couple of simple facts:Just under 85% of Americans, or 258,000,000 people are currently insuredof those with insurance, poll after poll has shown that between 77% (198,660,000 Americans) and 84% (216,720,000 Americans) are satisfied with their health insurance.As Mr. Obama and company are learning, that's a political force to be reckoned with.
http://conservativebootcamp.com martinhale

Well, I just learned that ordered lists didn't make the jump to WordPress. That should have read:

1. Just under 85% of Americans, or 258,000,000 people are currently insured

2. of those with insurance, poll after poll has shown that between 77% (198,660,000 Americans) and 84% (216,720,000 Americans) are satisfied with their health insurance.
http://thrive.today.com thriveblog

sounds about right…I really wish the media would declare "propaganda" a sin and move on to more unbiased news like BBC but better. When did propaganda become okay?

-thrive blog author
http://thrive.today.com
http://wastingtimewithalex.com/ AlexinCT

My bet is that this disapproval number will go higher than this: http://tinyurl.com/kmv2yb.
aharris

Hmmm, let's see … watch Obama or watch my usual Wednesday night TV … as if there is even a choice!

I can get the Cliff's Notes version from multiple sources later on when I have nothing better to do with my leisure time.
Mike_M

Watching CBS, Katie Couric set the tone with an air of desperation. Not an auspicious start.
NorthernCanuck

Wolf Blitzer was nearly breathless saying the President was about to come out.
http://annoyedelephants.wordpress.com 5minutes

John Hawkins: Watching the stupidity so that we won't have to. You're a brave, brave man, John.

I'm skipping the Obama thing. There's a more entertaining mentally challenged guy on Encore…. Sling Blade.
http://wastingtimewithalex.com/ AlexinCT

WTF? Claiming that they pulled the economy back from the brink, a blatant lie with things going south and unemplyment cntinuing to grow, after they caused it to implode? These democrats are insane.
Mike_M

So the American people have been rejecting socialism since Dingell's dad was in Congress. Not the best argument.
whats_up

Posted by AlexinCT

2009-09-09 20:19:24

True though Alex, true.
http://wastingtimewithalex.com/ AlexinCT

Yeah those sob stories – caused by government meddling in the insurance business – is gonna make me change my mind and allow you to destroy the country Barack! EPIC FAIL!
http://wastingtimewithalex.com/ AlexinCT

crthns if I want you to tell lies I will smack em out of you. Shut up and let the adults be you moron.
http://wastingtimewithalex.com/ AlexinCT

Look Rangel! Another crook that makes the nasty rules but doesn't have to live by the same rules we do.
NorthernCanuck

Why is it never mentioned that in Canada everyone gets private coverage on top of the government plans. McDonalds even advertises their health plan as a benefit to attract employees.
Huron_Serenity

The scare tactics used by the opponents of healthcare have been ridiculous and completely without any basis in fact.

Are there any adults out there?
Huron_Serenity

NorthernCanuk,

That is for things that are not covered by the Canadian government.
Scorched_Earth

Can I barf yet?
http://wastingtimewithalex.com/ AlexinCT

So the speech is more of the same, except this time TOTUS is telling Obama to talk as if he knows what he is talking about?

He is lying now too. The plan doesn't tell you to change things, it just limits your options in such a way that sooner or later you will have to change coverage to the government healthcare.

I am sure the media will point out the parade of lies going on and correct Obama based on the bill out there right?
NorthernCanuck

Posted by Huron_Serenity

2009-09-09 20:28:59

Exactly.
tblrk2006

True though Alex, true.

Posted by whats_up

2009-09-09 20:21:27

Oh…? And what indicator are you using? What did the govt do to help?
Huron_Serenity

Can anyone on here actually disagree with the notion that no one should go bankrupt because of their health care expenses?
http://wastingtimewithalex.com/ AlexinCT

So now the rules congress will put in place to force everyone onto the government plan sooner than later are to be referred to as "consumer protection"? Damn, this guy has no shame…
http://wastingtimewithalex.com/ AlexinCT

Hah, they laughed at him pointing out that this is all pie-in-the-sky bull right now and that we have no details. He almost burst out laghing himself. He must think he is pulling off a fast one.
tblrk2006

Can anyone on here actually disagree with the notion that no one should go bankrupt because of their health care expenses?

Posted by Huron_Serenity

2009-09-09 20:34:05

You are allowed to go bankrupt taking all sorts of other financial risks that could be avoided with insurance.
Mike_M

"Health care only works if everybody does their part." Does that mean Obama expects everybody to start paying for their own insurance as opposed leeching off of taxpayers?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
NorthernCanuck

hmmm….they seem to think the details are just a joke…who needs details
http://wastingtimewithalex.com/ AlexinCT

Can anyone on here actually disagree with the notion that no one should go bankrupt because of their health care expenses?

Even when they chose not to get coverage they could have paid for? I can't agree.
Huron_Serenity

Posted by tblrk2006

2009-09-09 20:37:48

Some people are not able to afford insurance. Should they die because of that? You're living in the wealthiest country on Earth. You can afford compassion.
http://wastingtimewithalex.com/ AlexinCT

There he goes! Government run healthcare is a must!
Mike_M

"You can afford compassion."

You can't mandate compassion either.
http://wastingtimewithalex.com/ AlexinCT

Some people are not able to afford insurance. Should they die because of that? You're living in the wealthiest country on Earth. You can afford compassion.

By that logic we should not allow anyone to die of anything ever…
tblrk2006

Obama….there has to be a group of people that decide when to pull the plug…aka stoping the funding of your care. There arent endless dollars…..there cant be if your not going to raise taxes.

Obama….when its illegal to add or switch your plan, we all end up in the public option. Thats what you want.
Huron_Serenity

By that logic we should not allow anyone to die of anything ever…

Posted by AlexinCT

2009-09-09 20:42:39

They should never die because they can not afford treatment.

Not everyone is able to afford insurance, and if you don't think that is true, you've lived a privileged existence.
Mike_M

Now he's using Academia as a comparison for government run health care? Yikes.

Shot of McCain with a "this is total bulls**t" look on his face.
NorthernCanuck

I gotta say I always find myself nodding in agreement with Mr. Obama when I hear him speak. It's only afterwards, after analysis, that I feel much differently.
tblrk2006

Some people are not able to afford insurance. Should they die because of that? You're living in the wealthiest country on Earth. You can afford compassion.

Posted by Huron_Serenity

2009-09-09 20:40:47

There is ample money for the govt to cover the 12 million that cant get it. No need to fuck everybody else unless your goal, as his is, is to drive everybody to govt care/control.
Mike_M

"I will not sign any plan that adds one dime to our deficits."

BWWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA!!!!!! What utter bunkum. This guy is a complete joke.
http://guardian.blogdrive.com/ CavalierX

So he won't back down from the "public option?" Well, I guess that's the hill you've chosen to die on, Obama.
NorthernCanuck

he couldn't hold that look straight into the camera
http://wastingtimewithalex.com/ AlexinCT

They should never die because they can not afford treatment.

Who is this "they" and why not? You one of the regular trolls with a new name? Cause you sure sound like you are just spouting lefty talking points. Which one of the trolls are you?

Not everyone is able to afford insurance, and if you don't think that is true, you've lived a privileged existence.

Since I chose to go without many luxuries and even some basics to pay for my insurance when I was young, I am not going to feel sorry for anyone that doesn't at a minimum do the same. And since there is a law forcing hostpitals to provide care for everyone, regardless of them having coverage or not, I am not feeling like I need to feel sorry for them even then.
Mike_M

Entitlements as a sacred trust. Yeah, that's the problem Barry. Government programs shouldn't be enshrined as holy scripture.
http://guardian.blogdrive.com/ CavalierX

Not everyone is able to afford insurance, and if you don't think that is true, you've lived a privileged existence.

And under Obamacare, NO ONE would be able to afford insurance.
http://wastingtimewithalex.com/ AlexinCT

LIES, LIES, LIES, YEAHA!
Mike_M

OH MY GOD, somebody tried to privatize Medicare to make it affordable! NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
tblrk2006

They should never die because they can not afford treatment.

Not everyone is able to afford insurance, and if you don't think that is true, you've lived a privileged existence.

Posted by Huron_Serenity

2009-09-09 20:44:19

So when the govt cannot afford the treatment it becomes ok to die? Thats what we see in the model countries being used to push govt care.
http://wastingtimewithalex.com/ AlexinCT

Shiesters & ambulance chasers are off limits!
Mike_M

Obama mentions tort reform and gets a huge Bronx cheer from the GOP as the Dems pout in silence. Classic.
Huron_Serenity

Posted by AlexinCT

2009-09-09 20:48:37

Access to health care is a human right under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights that the United States of America signed and ratified.

Denying access to health care is breaking international law.
http://wastingtimewithalex.com/ AlexinCT

Woo hoo! He even got to put in a dig at the wars and at Bush. This stuff is primo red meat for the moonbats, but it is more of the same…
Huron_Serenity

So when the govt cannot afford the treatment it becomes ok to die? Thats what we see in the model countries being used to push govt care.

Posted by tblrk2006

2009-09-09 20:51:09

Those are scare tactics with little to no basis in fact.
http://www.superdickery.com mightysamurai

Denying access to health care is breaking international law.

Tough titty. What are you gonna do about it?
Mike_M

So Medicare is rife with all this waste and fraud that can be used as a source of money to pay for the new plan…but expanding the government won't create any new waste! Does he actually think people believe this nonsense?
Mike_M

Yeah more people will lose their coverage and die if we don't pass this bill…because my handling of the economy has been so piss poor that unemployment is still rising…
Huron_Serenity

Tough titty. What are you gonna do about it?

Posted by mightysamurai

2009-09-09 20:55:44

You don't respect international treaties that your nation signed and ratified?

Yes, that certainly is a sign of maturity.
NorthernCanuck

On a superficial note: Nancy Pelosi is rather ghoulish looking.
http://wastingtimewithalex.com/ AlexinCT

Access to health care is a human right under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights that the United States of America signed and ratified.

This was also in the constitution of the USSR, of Cuba, of North Korea, and China.. In fact every communist and socialist shit hole says crap like this right before they murder and hold prisoner their own people. Pardon me for not taking it or any idiot that thinks this is true very seriously. If healthcare is a right then food, water, and air better be too. I need those more than I need healthcare.

Denying access to health care is breaking international law.

International law is for collectivists twits. The ones that like to murder and rape people. I am talking about the UN employees. I don't take it too seriously. You sound stupid.
tblrk2006

Access to health care is a human right under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights that the United States of America signed and ratified.

Denying access to health care is breaking international law.

Posted by Huron_Serenity

2009-09-09 20:54:43

Well its a good thing people have access to the best care in the world here. Even if you cannot pay for it you still get it. Having health insurance is not a human right, yet cose to 85% of americans have it.
tblrk2006

You don't respect international treaties that your nation signed and ratified?

Yes, that certainly is a sign of maturity.

Posted by Huron_Serenity

2009-09-09 20:56:54

Better bring that up with the UN. Just dont mention food for oil, Iraq, russia, or france.
http://guardian.blogdrive.com/ CavalierX

Access to health care is a human right under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights that the United States of America signed and ratified.

Then you pay for it. Don't bankrupt my children and grandchildren to pay for it — and then ration it out!
Huron_Serenity

Well its a good thing people have access to the best care in the world here. Even if you cannot pay for it you still get it. Having health insurance is not a human right, yet cose to 85% of americans have it.

Posted by tblrk2006

2009-09-09 20:58:38

Access to health care is a human right, unless you're a barbarian. Any good nation must show compassion to the unfortunate among us.

You have no problem with millions of America not having access to health care?
http://guardian.blogdrive.com/ CavalierX

Denying access to health care is breaking international law.

No one in this country is denied access to care. We just aren't footing their bills.
http://wastingtimewithalex.com/ AlexinCT

Obama's speech has managed to convince me to be even, more vehemently opposed to any plan that comes from this congress. Especially after he tried to say, with a striaght face no less, that Social Security isn't socialism writ large. I am sure the media is not going t point the plethora of lies and falsehoods in this speech out though.
http://guardian.blogdrive.com/ CavalierX

You have no problem with millions of America not having access to health care?

Again, no one in this country is denied health care. They just don't get to skate on the bill.
Huron_Serenity

Then you pay for it. Don't bankrupt my children and grandchildren to pay for it — and then ration it out!

Posted by CavalierX

2009-09-09 21:00:39

Your children and grandchildren will have just as much social responsibility as you do.
http://wastingtimewithalex.com/ AlexinCT

You have no problem with millions of America not having access to health care?

Hey retard. Did you miss the part where I told you everyone has access to healthcare by law? What they do not have is the right to make me and others pay for it.
Mike_M

Oh, look now I'm suddenly talking about limited government even though everything I just said for the last hour is pure authoritarian statism.
http://guardian.blogdrive.com/ CavalierX

Your children and grandchildren will have just as much social responsibility as you do.

So none, then. Good to know.
tblrk2006

Access to health care is a human right, unless you're a barbarian. Any good nation must show compassion to the unfortunate among us.

You have no problem with millions of America not having access to health care?

Posted by Huron_Serenity

2009-09-09 21:01:02

i dont think you know the differance between health care and health insurance. Everybody has access to health care. Hospitals cannot refuse you. Most americans have health insurance as well.
http://guardian.blogdrive.com/ CavalierX

i dont think you know the differance between health care and health insurance.

Oh, they know. They deliberately conflate the two so as to be able to push for government control of the healthcare industry.
Huron_Serenity

So none, then. Good to know.

Posted by CavalierX

2009-09-09 21:03:58

Have you no respect for fundamental human rights? Damn barbarian.
Huron_Serenity

Oh, they know. They deliberately conflate the two so as to be able to push for government control of the healthcare industry.

Posted by CavalierX

2009-09-09 21:05:10

Yes, you would be better off with government control of healthcare. If it is good enough for Canada, it is good enough for America.
http://wastingtimewithalex.com/ AlexinCT

Did Obama set a new record for falsehoods and stupidity? I think he might have. I heard nothing new. It is more of the same. The end goal, despite his insistence to the contrary, is to get government in charge of the healthcare decisions and money. Nothing new. More of the same bull.
tblrk2006

What they do not have is the right to make me and others pay for it.

Posted by AlexinCT

2009-09-09 21:02:56

That is correct. Planning for your future and your life means getting and paying for insurance like the rest of us. Those 12 million that really cannot afford can easily fit into the current govt system. And as we know, the private market can do it better if its just allowed to.
http://guardian.blogdrive.com/ CavalierX

Have you no respect for fundamental human rights? Damn barbarian.

I have plenty of respect for my fundamental human right not to be enslaved to the State to pay for "health care" which then gets rationed out to me and the rest of us at the whims of government bureaucracy. I have lots of respect for our fundamental human right to get the best health care we can. And you keep missing the fact that no one in this country is denied health care.
http://wastingtimewithalex.com/ AlexinCT

Your children and grandchildren will have just as much social responsibility as you do.

Social reponsibility… isn't that code for the misery you find in every collectivist sh*thole where the people became the slaves of the state and the elite masters? I thought so.
http://guardian.blogdrive.com/ CavalierX

Yes, you would be better off with government control of healthcare. If it is good enough for Canada, it is good enough for America.

It's not good for Canadians, Brits or anyone else saddled with the horrors of government health "care."
http://www.liberty-page.com/issues/healthcare/soc…
NorthernCanuck

good enough for Canada, it is good enough for America.

Posted by Huron_Serenity

Why do Canadians go to the States for treatment? Heck, why do provincial governments ship patients south?
tblrk2006

Yes, you would be better off with government control of healthcare. If it is good enough for Canada, it is good enough for America.

Posted by Huron_Serenity

2009-09-09 21:06:14

Why is our system better right now than anything you guys have? We dont wait, we have top of the line equipment, and your folks still keep coming here. Haha
Huron_Serenity

"It's not good for Canadians, Brits or anyone else saddled with the horrors of government health "care."

http://www.liberty-page.com/is…care/socialized….

Posted by CavalierX

2009-09-09 21:08:47 "

Bullshit site.
Huron_Serenity

Many of you need some reeducation.
http://www.reddirtdude.blogspot.com President_Friedman

I thought Obama gave an eloquent speech (I think I am one of the few conservatives who enjoys hearing an eloquent President, even if I disagree with him on every single thing), but as always it was chock full of logical holes, half-truths, and fundamental misunderstandings of the issue at hand.

Mostly I got two things out of it: He is willing to cede the public option, and he's willing to talk about tort reform if it means he can get a bill passed.

If the GOP can strip the public option and get tort reform enacted, I think that's about the best possible outcome we can hope for whilst working with a Democratic majority. Now they need to go to work.
http://wastingtimewithalex.com/ AlexinCT

BTW. I wanted to comment on something I heard Obama say. He blamed insurance companies for the reason people are not allowed to form their own groups and buy insurance in such pools. That is a lie if I ever heard one. Government regulations is what forbids this kind of thing from being done. And it is there on purpose. In fact practically every problem you can mention with healtchare insurance right now, is there because of government imposed regulations. And that’s not a coincidence either. Those laws are there to break the system so people like Obama can pretend to “care” about the unfortunate – the same unfortunates they created with their laws – and take over healthcare.
tblrk2006

If it is good enough for Canada, it is good enough for America.

Posted by Huron_Serenity

2009-09-09 21:06:14

And no, its not good enough for canada, definately not good enough for us, and what we have now is much better.
NorthernCanuck

I'm Canadian, returned home about 3 years ago after 12 years in the States. I still don't have a regular physician. I was blown away by the access to healthcare in the States. I didn't feel sympathy for people that took cheap HMO plans then complained. I took the top option and was grateful for it. The cost for insurance was no different than in Canada, it was just in the open, not buried in general taxes and surcharges.

I'm telling you; there's just no comparison between the two countries; the US is far and away the better place for access to health care.
tblrk2006

Many of you need some reeducation.

Posted by Huron_Serenity

2009-09-09 21:11:30

You need an education.
NorthernCanuck

Many of you need some reeducation.

Posted by Huron_Serenity

2009-09-09 21:11:30

uh…yeah….that's a familiar refrain through history, I think that was a troll line and I guess I fell for it
http://wastingtimewithalex.com/ AlexinCT

I thought Obama gave an eloquent speech (I think I am one of the few conservatives who enjoys hearing an eloquent President, even if I disagree with him on every single thing), but as always it was chock full of logical holes, half-truths, and fundamental misunderstandings of the issue at hand.

Maybe I have different standards for what I call eloquent PF, but the most important things to affect how I receive a speech are the facts and logic behind it. There was little of either of those in this speech. It was scarce on details, replete with half truths, blatant falsehoods, omitted key things or glossed over them, and in general made me feel like I had a snake oil salesman trying to convince me to hand over my life's savings for a bottle of prune juice.
Huron_Serenity

Posted by NorthernCanuck

2009-09-09 21:14:18

You're no Canadian.

As a member of the Communist Party of Canada, I am probably the only true Canadian here.
Mike_M

This speech did nothing for Obama. He paid lip service to limited government and the free market, but only after he had spent an hour trashing them and declaring the government to be the solution to all problems.

I honestly don't see how this changes any minds or opens new doors for negotiation. A total waste of hour on the national stage.
http://wastingtimewithalex.com/ AlexinCT

Many of you need some reeducation.

Would not be surprised that was also part of the plan. After all, the end goal is something that will devolve into the USSR or North Korea eventually.
http://wastingtimewithalex.com/ AlexinCT

As a member of the Communist Party of Canada, I am probably the only true Canadian here.

You are certainly the big idiot here.
http://guardian.blogdrive.com/ CavalierX

Bullshit site.

I knew you'd say that without clicking the link. Its just a page of links to news stories from such "bullshit" sources as the the Times and the BBC for the UK, and CBC for Canada. Ha!
Huron_Serenity

Would not be surprised that was also part of the plan. After all, the end goal is something that will devolve into the USSR or North Korea eventually.

Posted by AlexinCT

2009-09-09 21:19:59

I would move to the USA then.
NorthernCanuck

You are certainly the big idiot here.

Posted by AlexinCT

2009-09-09 21:20:48

I figured at first he was a misguided soul but I see now he's just a poorly skilled troll, certainly an idiot. Will use my ignore flag on him now.
http://www.reddirtdude.blogspot.com President_Friedman

Posted by AlexinCT

2009-09-09 21:18:58

"…the most important things to affect how I receive a speech are the facts and logic behind it."

I know exactly what you mean, and I agree that those are the most important things. Those are the things that determine whether or not a speech sways my opinion, which is, of course, the most important function of a speech.

But delivery is still important, although less so, especially in our culture that is so tuned in to style over substance. And I think the libs routinely kick our ass when it comes to laying down a well delivered speech. Give me a conservative with Obama's (or Corey Booker, or Harold Ford, Jr.) style and delivery, and I can give you our next president…. instead we get Bush, Palin, and Michael Steele… people who make forming simple sentences look like a major chore. I'm not a huge Rush fan, but the man can emote more eloquence in one sentence than the whole GOP elecorate can shovel in an entire Congressional session.
http://TheNixonTape.Com Dick_Nixon

Yes, you would be better off with government control of healthcare. If it is good enough for Canada, it is good enough for America.

Posted by Huron_Serenity

2009-09-09 21:06:14

Yeah, if we want to join the Third World.
http://wastingtimewithalex.com/ AlexinCT

But delivery is still important,

PF, sorry if I gave you the impression that was not the case dude. Delivery is incredibly important. Someone that doesn't know how to deliver will still go down in flames even if they have facts & logic on their side. My point was however that for me personally no matter how eloquent and well spoken the person delivering the speech may be, if I feel I am being fed bull, it loses its magic.

And I think the libs routinely kick our ass when it comes to laying down a well delivered speech.

That has a lot to do with the fact that too many people are way more impressed by a flashy talker than the substance of what he is talking about though PF. I agree that a good talker makes your point easier to get across, but don't confuse that with what the left does. They have used car salesmen that peddle their wares to people that are not quick enough to figure out they are being played. I would not be impressed by someone on our side doing the same. In fact, I would be doubly pissed.

I'm not a huge Rush fan, but the man can emote more eloquence in one sentence than the whole GOP elecorate can shovel in an entire Congressional session.

True dat. But he is not willing to take the pay cut to go into politics.
http://guardian.blogdrive.com/ CavalierX

I would move to the USA then.

Thanks, but we already have too many Commies. Some of them are now running the damn government.
http://www.thepiratescove.us William_Teach

About the only part of the meglomaniac's speech I heard (I was getting in my car and was still on the talk radio station. Took a minute to get my Zen powered up, decided to start with Golden Earing's Twilight Zone) was around 815, when he mentioned about some of the far left wanting Single Payer. At that point, there was a huge bit of applause, which I will assume came from Democrats.

But, they don't want single payer /sarc off.
http://wastingtimewithalex.com/ AlexinCT

Golden Earing's Twilight Zone

Love those Dutch boys and that tune man…
michaelalan

Access to health care is a human right…

Posted by Huron_Serenity

If that's so, then where is my free gun under the right to bear arms?
http://www.2008news.com jimg

"Can anyone on here actually disagree with the notion that no one should go bankrupt because of their health care expenses?"

Can anyone on here actually agree with the notion that I could go bankrupt paying for somebody else's health care expenses?
Mike_M

"Can anyone on here actually agree with the notion that I could go bankrupt paying for somebody else's health care expenses?"

*standing ovation*
http://www.superdickery.com mightysamurai

You don't respect international treaties that your nation signed and ratified?

Well, what if I don't? What if the United States tells you to take your bullshit "treaty" and shove it up your pooper? What are you gonna do about it?

As a member of the Communist Party of Canada, I am probably the only true Canadian here.

You hear that, NorthernCanuck? You're officially an unperson. Congrats.
http://PatriotPost.US bthewolf

I would move to the USA then.

Posted by Huron_Serenity

2009-09-09 21:22:00

And I'd kick your commie ass back across the border, twit.

And healthcare is not a right anymore than food is, in order to fulfill the right to health care SOMEONE IS FORCED TO PROVIDE THE CARE, that's SLAVERY. So take your opinion and shove it up your A$$, Huron_stupidity.
http://annoyedelephants.wordpress.com/2009/09/09/liveblogging-the-speech-so-i-dont-have-to/ Liveblogging the Speech So I Don’t Have To « The Pachyderms Are Annoyed

[...] 9, 2009 by The Annoyed Elephant Go read John Hawkins’ liveblog. He’s a brave [...]
http://TheNixonTape.Com Dick_Nixon

The first for President Obama. He brought it home.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090910/ap_on_go_pr_w…

Barry's Lie Festival documented for you inbreds.
http://TheNixonTape.Com Dick_Nixon

I would move to the USA then.

Posted by Huron_Serenity

2009-09-09 21:22:00

Good. Nixon needs a new yard man.
redfish

The President had a few singles and round the bag toward second on a few things. I actually thought the President was going to be more center since his numbers are in the political crapper but he did live up to the Left's expectations. His offer for any real litigation reform was rather shallow. It was like give a hungry man a sucker. No real meat there. "We will look at looking about doing something about gutter trash lawsuits".

How freaking embarrassing was Rep. Joe Wilson, R-S.C.? What kind of complete D.A. is he? Is he doing crank before going to work or what? Regardless of your feelings, you just don't do that to a sitting U.S. President while addressing the Congress and American People. Wilson will not sleep well over night and he needs to beg forgiveness publicly. Bad manners.

I hope the Republicans come out with a great counter plan that addresses the obvious areas that need to be fixed and there are plenty. There are many of areas that both sides could come to an agreement on and improve the health care system.

Do you guys know that Teddy Kennedy is passed away?
redfish

Do you guys know that Teddy Kennedy has passed away?

Seriously, Ted Kennedy is dead. I found it on the internet. I think his family was still in town waiting on a free government plane to take them back to Boston or something so they were given free tickets to the speech last night. Well, except for the drug addict and alcoholic Congressman Son, he gets the tickets as part of his job as long as he is not in rehab. I bet he wants health care reform for all alcoholics and drug addicts whether they work for a union or not.
aharris

Redfish, the Reps have come out with plans. There is an entire bill that's been written up by Sen. Coburn. Republicans have offered amenment after amendment (300 at least) only to have every single one shot down on a party line vote.

Just because the media doesn't report it doesn't mean they haven't been trying to work with the Dems.

I don't blame someone for yelling "liar" at BO. Was it rude? Yes. Is BO lying? Yes.
Mike_M

"How freaking embarrassing was Rep. Joe Wilson, R-S.C.?"

Quite embarassing for Obama, judging by the unhinged reaction from the left. Every headline about this speech reads "LIAR!" next to a picture of Obama. Is that the reaction he was going for?
http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

Access to health care is a human right under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights that the United States of America signed and ratified.

Denying access to health care is breaking international law.

Posted by Huron_Serenity

2009-09-09 20:54:43

I absolutely agree. In fact, it is available right now. Simply choose your plan and purchase it just like you do with food, clothing and shelter.
D-Vega

Fantastic speech.

Usual uplifting rhetoric, a direct aim at oponents, some bones to opponents.

The Republican response was the usual robot. Not only did he not respond correctly, and included things Obama never said, but he didn't offer anything that Obama didn't include.

This thing is gonna happen.
http://guardian.blogdrive.com/ CavalierX

Fantastic speech.

I'm surprised you could hear any of it, with your head so far up Obama's ass and all.
D-Vega

Oh, I heard it loud and clear, Cav. And so did squishy Dems.
airfr8er

Posted by CavalierX

2009-09-10 09:57:33

Sound travels well through bone, Cav. So it depends on Vega's heads orientation.
http://www.rocksolidcorp.com/weblog/index.html Markus

Btw John.. thank you for pointing this part out:

Insurance companies can’t turn you down if you’re sick. They also can’t drop you if you lie about your coverage or place any kind of cap on how much coverage you get. He might as well be promising unicorns and faeries.

So "un"officially… if this plan (whereever it is?) passes, you walk into an insurance office and they're STUCK with you? So the way I figure this.. Insurance companies just say "no"… (no reason whatsoever), you're not covered, so then you automatically go on the govt. plan, right?

And D.. i wouldn't bet that "squishys" heard the speech.. I saw a couple of polls that said 98% of people didn't change their opinion after this speech. (me, i watched the Cardinals game and then caught the 11PM replay of the speech… I needed something to put me to sleep).

you just don't do that to a sitting U.S. President while addressing the Congress and American People.

You don't??? Dems were doing that to BUsh for each and every address he gave (including SOTU addresses.). I give Congress Wilson credit for standing up and saying that not everyone believes the bull—- that this snake oil salesman is trying to pitch. (and again, has anyone SEEN "Obama's plan"?)
http://guardian.blogdrive.com/ CavalierX

Sound travels well through bone, Cav.

Dude, are you trying to say Obama's got a bony ass? I guess with all the "naked Obama riding a unicorn" paintings floating around, the state of his ass must be pretty apparent. Hard to judge from the outside with Vega's head stuck up it, though.
D-Vega

You don't??? Dems were doing that to BUsh for each and every address he gave (including SOTU addresses.).

No, they didn't. Groans & moans are one thing (which the Reps did last night also).

I am referring to a pol outright interupting the President's address. That didn't happen.

And why would you want to give someone credit who admitted what they did was wrong?
redfish

If the cable news is correct, there still aren't enough votes to pass this package being pushed. Thank goodness! The sad part is there really is a lot that needs to be fixed that both sides could agree on and yet those that control the House and Senate will not accept those changes alone.

No, the left leaning heads in Congress (they can't be called Leaders because they have shown no true leadership) want all or nothing. And yet they sit upon their perch blaming the Republicans alone. The President missed his chance to hit a homerun last night with the majority of American people that know the Health System needs some help across the board. Insurance is overly expensive for a family or individual if not covered by an employer. Cross state insurance markets could be opened and preexisting condition rules could be passed to force companies to cover people. I am not an expert in this issue but I know enough to recognize we do have a problem.

I work for the Federal Government and there is no motivation to be dollar frugal or in many cases overly productive. That does not mean that Government employees do not care or do not do great work. The government at all levels fails to run the day-to-day departments like a company trying to make or save money. Many people aren't self motivated in the Government and there is very little consequence for those that perform poorly. It is like playing with Monopoly Money, it is not real and it is not theirs.
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