We need to remember that the actual “Death Panel” is the WHOLE Obamacare system. What kills people in single payer/socialist medicine systems is the rationing/waiting lists and lack of innovation.

The clowns (politician and gov employees) would not have the gut to actually send some to tell you that you are slated to die – its just done by the use of formulas, regulations, etc that set up who gets priority on the various waiting lists.

The closest approximation to that you might see in the bill would be a group called “Comparative Outcome Boards” or “Health Comminsioners”. Those will be the guys who are empowered to begin the regulations that deny treatments or start rationing.

The whole thing about “end of life” counseling being a paid treatment in HR 3200 is what people usally fixate on but that not the “Death Panel” – again, the WHOLE SCHEME is a virtual death panel but no such board ever exists or notification ever given by a person in the Democrats or other countries government run systems.

Conservatives need to understand this and explain it in this terms or elses its easy for liberals to dismiss the “end of life” counseling as simply paying for a treatment – that just a small, small part of the whole death panel government HC system.

Politicians will always cling to the fiction that “nobody will be denied effective treatment” by simply placing you on a rationing/waiting list without explaination from your provider except maybe “those are the rules”

They will just confuse the issue with clever formulas, boards, etc that will be sent to providers in the form of regulations, rules, treatment protocols, etc that force of law will compell them to follow – you will never see a human face to attribute the denial to as its systemic.

And of course, certain treatments for whatever reason will simply be refused to EVERYONE by the system by being declared “experimental” or “not cost effective”

Which is the real crime/abuse of this so-called “reform” – what should be a personal/family decision between you and your HC provider (maybe at worst add in your HC insurance company for the covering payments they may provide if you choose to have one) suddenly becomes a matter of politics/collective decsion. You being a lobby of one have virtual zero say in the matter and whats worse the provider and the insurance have MUCH more accountability to the goverment then you the patient. Basically, it will be an ugly lobbying food fight between every organized interest group in the country to get the government to fund treatments that benefit their special interest. The rich and the politically conntected/popular interests will benefit – the weak, politically unpopular groups, and unorganized (that is to say the common man) will get the short end every time with little recourse. And of course, the rich and politically connected will be able to call in favors to “jump ahead” in priority of treatment as they do in Canada, GB, Cuba etc (so animals will always be more equal then others).

In our current HC system, since you still retain individual choices, you always have options for treatment or payment. You can change insurance companies, doctors, hospitals, etc. You can sue too. You can self-pay. You have have a large degree of control.

In the new government run HC system (yes, with or without a “government option” its still government run HC/Nationalization since the Feds will dictate you participate by buying insurance to there specifications, they set all the rules, and fund the scam thru new taxes and subsidies) you have no recourses except politics. You are enslaved more then ever to DC. Which is the goal – more power for liberal politics.

To remain a free and independent people this MUST be defeated.

So, if I don't buy health care ins. my taxes go up? Am I reading that right?

Could be…if you are relying on the public to finance your emergency care.

Posted by rmiller

2009-10-31 00:14:38

You mean "will be." The mandate requires you to carry health insurance no matter what, not just if you can't pay out of pocket. And expect the goalposts to move on what is considered an acceptable insurance policy by the government, too. In Massachusetts, they've already changed their thinking on what costitutes acceptable health care coverage catching people who have health insurance with the punitive tax. You see, in Massachusetts, they've had something very much like this for around 3 years, and it's sinking the state budget miserably.

Good God!! Another politician that continues to insult us with lies. Of course our taxes will go up & we are being forced to accept it.

Want to know what Obama & congress has next in store for us? There is a new, political thriller just out about a small town that stands up to federal tyranny & ends up starting the 2nd American Revolution. It's insightful & I recommend it for everyone to read cause it's about todays threats to each of us if we want to save America. Read it & see what's nxt & what each of us can do. Read it & prepare!
http://www.booksbyoliver.com

Employer Mandate Excise Tax – This will have far reaching effects on America. Companies that are just over the $500K payroll will layoff employees to get under that threshold. We will see many small companies split into several companies to keep the payrolls under the $500K. But this will mean more work for lawyers and accountants setting up these new comapnies.

For every tax congress creates, there are many people out there that will come up with ways to avoid paying them. If the tax burden becomes too great, people will take their money and leave. Look at NY for an example. They raise taxes on the rich expecting to raise revenues and revenues actually decrease.

Unless you are willing to pay for any medical issue out of your own pocket, health insurance should be mandatory.

Wow. Didn't think you'd ever out yourself as a closet fascist so blatantly.

Mandatory? It should be mandatory for me to buy health insurance? Why, because you say so? Since when are you the arbiter of what's good for everyone else?

Given that the president already signed a bill raising taxes on liquor and cigarettes, he's broken the "no more taxes" pledge in record time. President Bush the elder got endless attacks and mockery for doing that, Obama? Not so much. I guess nobody really expected him to keep a single promise he made.

Well, he is a politician, and a Democrat at that.

What's scary is that he could come up with all this money and more by cutting taxes. Of course he won't do that … it sounds too much like right.

RWR
http://www.rightwingrocker.com

What's the conservative solution?

Again?

OK here goes:

1) work to set up medical savings plan structures so people can set aside money that they could only spend on medical care, thus injecting personal responsibility into health care and concern over costs. This tends to limit frivolous or excessive use of insurance, and makes it more an emergency expense rather than "ooh I cut my finger."

2) Reform tort law to protect doctors and discourage frivolous and income lawsuits (the kind where people sue to make money as a job rather than as legal recourse).

3) Change the laws so that insurance companies can sell across state lines.

4) ?Equalize the tax laws so that employer-provided health insurance and individually owned health insurance have the same tax benefits. Now employer health insurance benefits are fully tax deductible, but individual health insurance is not. (this is a quote from Mackey's plan, because he puts it succinctly).

5) Lower taxes so that individuals have more liquidity and are better able to care for themselves and others in need. Charitable giving always goes up in better economic times, and people with more money can help friends and family more.

6) Utterly eliminate Medicare and Medicaid in all its various forms and assist states in setting up their own version if they wish. Cut taxes equivalent to this vast reduction in government spending.

This isn't new, any of it. We've said this over and over. Just because people don't want to listen doesn't mean it hasn't been said.

Bonus: it addresses both costs and personal responsibility, as well as shrinking the federal government to constitutional boundaries and stimulating the economy. The Democratic Party plan does none of this. It just tries to make everything more socialist with the idiotic, baseless presumption that government does everything better.