When Obama signed this order, it was hailed by Liberals as Obama keeping his word, sticking it to Bush and the Republicans, and the beginning of America’s re-emergance in the world.

Expect the 1-year anniversary of Obama’s failure to be greated by a yawn and silence from the Liberals.

No one is outraged because Obama has told us that is going to take longer than expected. He has stated this numerous times and has kept us informed of whats happening. Adults realize that sometimes timetables dont work out, the base will still close, that is the important thing.

Oh you mean the objective for which Republicans block every solution? See also: Housing them in an EMPTY prison in Thompson, Illinois.

The failure isn’t Obamas its the party of ‘Do Nothing’.

The failure isn’t Obamas its the party of ‘Do Nothing’.
Posted by Robert_Ingersoll 2010-02-02 13:36:30

Up until the Scott Brown election, the Republicans could do NOTHING to stop anything the Democrats and Obama wanted. Your failure to do even the simpliest things is highlighted by the fact that you blame Republicans for stopping it, when they had no ability to do it.

Pathetic.

Adults realize that sometimes timetables dont work out…
Posted by whats_up 2010-02-02 13:35:28

Which explains why you and your ilk bitched and moaned so much about timetables in Iraq and Afghanistan… when Bush was in power.

“Up until the Scott Brown election, the Republicans could do NOTHING to stop anything the Democrats and Obama wanted.”

@StanInTexas,

To quote George Will, “He (Scott Brown) is one percent of one-half of one of our three branches of government. That is he’s one senator in an institution where like most institutions, 80 percent of the work is done by about 20 percent of the people. Most of them senior senators.”

So much for saviors.

Posted by Robert_Ingersoll 2010-02-02 13:56:45

Nice, but meaningless quote.

Try addressing the point you originally brought up. That beaing how you are cowardly blaming the Republicans for Obama and Pelosi’s failure to pass their agenda with a filibuster proof majority!

@StanInTexas,

Oh that was just the wind up for the beat down. It gets better when George Will is actually quoting Brown.

“Furthermore, as he said in his interview, every Republican senator is the 41st senator, therefore every one of them is a potential obstructionist or extortionist, depending on what you say. So in that sense, I think he will be of modest historic importance. ”

I am so glad you aren’t get tired of getting schooled.

I am so glad you aren’t get tired of getting schooled.
Posted by Robert_Ingersoll 2010-02-02 14:10:41

Again, DUMBASS, and I will type slowly so you can follow along…

HOW DOES THAT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT OBAMA AND PELOSI CANNOT GET THEIR AGENDA PASSED IN A YEAR WITH A FILIBUSTER-PROOF MAJORITY?

It’s a simple question, Robert. Stay on topic and answer it and then we can get to your diversion.

@StanInTexas,

You are counting this as a victory before the battle is won. Just because it hasn’t happened yet doesn’t mean it wont. Want cudos for being an obstructionist, good…for…you.

Still haven’t addressed one solution why we shouldn’t house the Gitmo prisoners in Illinois. But that would involve more thinking and less personal attacks, but that seems to be your only defense.

Posted by Robert_Ingersoll 2010-02-02 14:44:09

OK, this is pointless. I asked you a simple question and you have tried to cloud the issue with meaningless diversions. You demand people answer your questions, but you will not return the courtesy.

You are a fucking child and will be treated as such from now on.

Piss off and die Robert, you pig-eating son-of-a-whore!

You are a fucking child and will be treated as such from now on.

Piss off and die Robert, you pig-eating son-of-a-whore!
Posted by StanInTexas
2010-02-02 14:46:46

A conservative in action – and stan-the-ban in particular.

…the base will still close, that is the important thing.
Posted by whats_up
2010-02-02 13:35:28

Only to the mind of child, son.

Boy, you STILL are in Da Nile, aren’t you?

Got news for you: just like the plan to hold an obscene political show trial in the heart of New York City’s Financial District ran smack into the invisible wall known to non-Liberals as Reality, so too are Bambi’s plans to close Gitmo in the process of epic failure.

Prediction: Gitmo will not close in our lifetime. There will be NO political show trials. Many inmates at Gitmo will go before military panels, others will never see the light of day again.

Prediction: Gitmo will not close in our lifetime. There will be NO political show trials. Many inmates at Gitmo will go before military panels, others will never see the light of day again.
Posted by CoolCzech
2010-02-02 14:53:46

Note to self: “Don’t get Cool to pick the Oscars.

What’s wrong with eating pig Stan? I like pork -just not in congressional bills!

Prediction: Gitmo will not close in our lifetime. There will be NO political show trials. Many inmates at Gitmo will go before military panels, others will never see the light of day again.

Posted by CoolCzech
2010-02-02 14:53:46

CC,

More predictions from you, havent you learned your lesson yet? Or are the PUMAs going to save you here as well.

More predictions from you, havent you learned your lesson yet? Or are the PUMAs going to save you here as well.
Posted by whats_up
2010-02-02 15:06:49

Why do you lie constantly?

“Got news for you: just like the plan to hold an obscene political show trial in the heart of New York City’s Financial District ran smack into the invisible wall known to non-Liberals as Reality”

@CoolCzech,

Please explain the difference between trying Khalid Sheikh Mohammed on American soil and the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui?

Clue, none. That’s right we had a full trial of another 9/11 co-conspirator, Zacarias Moussaoui, with no kidnappings, no murders, no bombings and no GOP hand wringing on American soil.

Ingersol and Whutzup both conveniently missed (and by that I mean purposefully missed) the singular point of my post. Obama made a deadline to close Gitmo and the media thrilled over it. He set a 1-year deadline. He’s missed it and the closing isn;t coming ANY time soon. And the media is practically silent. Should Bush had done this the media would have lost its tiny mind and so would extremists such as Ingersol and Whutzup. Their “adult considerations that some times things take longer than expected” only works in favor of Dummicrats. These folks on the left are hypocrites and liars. It’s really just that simple.

Posted by Warner Todd Huston
2010-02-02 15:24:17

The left is not outraged because the left know why Gitmo is not yet closed. The media is silent because it is a non-issue.

@Warner Todd,

Obviously we read your post better than you read ours. You want to hold Obama to a strict time line when your party is being obstructionist, yet offering no solutions themselves (at least one of which we brought up on this thread).

Please bear in mind the previous administration made similar promises mid-2006 and its still open. Where is your outrage?

More predictions from you, havent you learned your lesson yet? Or are the PUMAs going to save you here as well.
Posted by whats_up
2010-02-02 15:06:49

How did that Scott Brown thing work out for you, whats_up?

And “Obamacare”?

LOL!

@CoolCzech,

Please explain the difference between trying Khalid Sheikh Mohammed on American soil and the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui?

Well, for starters, Robert I., we didn’t see the President saying Moussaoui was “tortured,” nor did we see the White House Press Secretary saying Moussaoui would be tried, found guilty, and executed.

Nor did we have the White House openly admitting Moussaoui would never be allowed to walk even if he WAS acquitted.

Some people might consider these to be not-so-small points.

“…the base will still close, that is the important thing.”

We have very different ideas of what is important.

Moreover, you aren’t current on the latest news cycle. Right now, they are talking about keeping the Gitmo detention center open on an idefinite basis. There is even talk of moving the trials back to Gitmo.

Further, Obama has already came out and said that even if he moves some prisoners from Gitmo, they may still be indefinitely detained without trial whereever it is that he decides to move them.

So, remind me again why it’s important to close the Gitmo detention center?

The left is not outraged because the left know why Gitmo is not yet closed. The media is silent because it is a non-issue.
Posted by Realpolitik
2010-02-02 15:32:23

Gitmo is not closed for exactly the same reason it opened in the first place.

Namely, There is NO practical alternative to it.

Which, of course, adults recognize it will never close.

Posted by CoolCzech
2010-02-02 15:39:30

Actually, an accurate summation.

Please explain the difference between trying Khalid Sheikh Mohammed on American soil and the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui?

For one thing, there was no mechanism in place for military tribunals when Moussaoui was tried; therefore he could not have been tried in the proper fashion. For another, the holding facility at Guantanamo Bay did not exist until 2002; therefore he could not have been held outside US soil. Third, Moussaoui was arrested on immigration charges before 9/11 and was already in the American justice system; he was not an unlawful combatant suddenly granted full legal rights.

“I’d like to end Guantanamo. I’d like it to be over with” — George Bush

@CoolCzech,

“Some people might consider these to be not-so-small points deflections.”

Fixed it for you. Still haven’t addressed the reasoning for not putting Khalid Sheikh Mohammed on trial for crimes committed on American soil in the United States.

Posted by CavalierX
2010-02-02 15:49:15

Hey, I forgot to add a fourth difference. Moussaoui was not detected and captured using covert operatives and resources that should never be, but would inevitably be revealed to the public during a civilian trial. KSM was.

“he was not an unlawful combatant suddenly granted full legal rights.”

@CavalierX,
A ‘made up’ term by Bush, Cheny, Addington and Yoo with no real legal basis outside that administration.

A ‘made up’ term by Bush, Cheny, Addington and Yoo with no real legal basis outside that administration.

He was certainly not a lawful combatant under the Geneva Conventions. Therefore, he must have been an unlawful combatant. According to the Geneva Conventions, lawful combatants (the only ones who can claim prisoners of war status) are defined thus:

Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:
1. Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.
2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions: (a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates; (b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance; (c) That of carrying arms openly; (d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.
3. Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.
http://tinyurl.com/d7vwvs

Ingersol, you definitely have a reading comprehension problem if your response is, “Please bear in mind the previous administration made similar promises mid-2006 and its still open. Where is your outrage? ” I am not outraged by missed deadlines. I am reacting to the hypocrites on the left that are always up in arms about what Republicans do but NOT up in arms about it when the anti-American left does the same thing. Dude, really, look up the word “context.” I am sorry that you have a major learning disability but don’t take it out on us. Maybe CommieObamaie can give you some stimulus cash to help out with your education?

Obama never ever really intended to close GITMO. The only thing he considered doing was to change the location. Of course, the lefties were delighted because they fell for the lie that the One (PBUH) would close GITMO which would make the terrorists hate us just that much less, which is B.S. of course.

Detaining these men without trial in GITMO or elsewhere doesn’t much matter to them or their supporters, although it would be viewed as a victory by the left because they were finally able to close Boooosh’s!!!!11!! horrible terrible, icky prison. As usual, the left is more concerned with appearance over substance.

The right was and is upset, and rightly so, because there is no good reason to relocate the prisoners, no good reason to close the prison, and the proposed changes increase the risk that some of the prisoners could get out of Government captivity within the US. But other than that the One (PBUH) is right on top of things.

Have an Evil Day

I’m pretty sure most of the “Close Gitmo” guys were just agitating against President Bush and Republicans more than anything else. You can tell by the sudden drop in “anti-war” protests once Democrats got congress in 2006.

Here’s a critical problem with trying terrorists as criminals: you have to throw out most of the evidence, and technically the cases entirely because how it was gathered violates the laws behind criminal investigations. That means terrorists walk free… or you destroy the basics of criminal jurisprudence in the nation.

For example, the crotch bomber was interrogated for almost an hour before he was told he had the right to remain silent. You know what happens if you do that in a criminal case? The bad guy walks.

Try these guys as criminals and they get away with it. They’re a different class of guys from criminals.

And really that’s not so weird a concept is it? We have misdemeanors and felonies already in common law. We have civilian and military courts. We have civil and criminal trials. Trying terrorists is just done in a different sort of trial than an ordinary criminal: a military tribunal.

Wanting them to be tried in ordinary criminal courts can only be prompted by one of a very small number of possibles:

1) Stupidity, just people too dumb to comprehend why this is a bad idea.
2) Ignorance, people who’ve not thought it through nor had anyone tell them differently
3) A desire for these men to walk free.

Which is it, lefties?

@Warner Todd,

Actually I contributed more facts to the thread than you have in your original post or your pathetic attempt to lower me down to your level of name calling.

Obama has made many attempts to close Gitmo by negotiating with other countries to take some and use an empty unused prison for others. Unfortunately Republicans have seen fit to ‘do nothing’ as usual. If you had your way the Uighur who were more of a danger to China than the US would still be there. But that would take effort and thought.

You fail to acknowledge the shortcomings of your leadership, who offered the same promises and you want others to take ownership of promises made by theses leaders, yet dont feel any obligation yourself and your additional posts just exposed you for what you are bitter with nothing tangible to contribute. I feel sorry for you, maybe if you did a little more research before your write and took a deep breath first you might contribute something valuable to the discussion… someday.

Actually I contributed more facts to the thread than you have in your original post or your pathetic attempt to lower me down to your level of name calling.

Oh do tell, Robert. Precisely what “facts” have you contributed? The fact that Obama makes promises he can’t keep? The fact that you’re a raging anti-Bush ideologue? That’s about the only facts I can detect that you “contributed”.

Near as I can tell his “facts” are that the Republicans aren’t preventing President Obama from being revealed as a pathetic, ineffectual, bumbling liar by miraculously stepping in with power they don’t have and forcing the Democrats to do what they promised to do and criticized the Republicans for not doing.

Something like that.

Yep, Bobbie, a definite reading problem.

Actually I contributed more facts to the thread than you have in your original post or your pathetic attempt to lower me down to your level of name calling.

You? Facts? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

O…K… Talk about a Walter Mitty complex. ROFL!

Obama has made many attempts to close Gitmo by negotiating with other countries to take some and use an empty unused prison for others.

Name one that accepted.

Unfortunately Republicans have seen fit to ‘do nothing’ as usual.

Looks like your “do nothing” mantra is, well, doing nothing.

If you had your way the Uighur who were more of a danger to China than the US would still be there. But that would take effort and thought.

If you had your way, pedophilia would be legal.

Yep, Bobbie, a definite reading problem.
Posted by Warner Todd Huston
2010-02-02 20:33:03

Go easy on him Warner. He still believes Obama will deliver him a unicorn.

Obama has made many attempts to close Gitmo

Posted by Robert_Ingersoll
2010-02-02 18:55:36

Then he probably should have said he would ATTEMPT to close gitmo, rather than he would close it.

Name one that accepted.

Posted by Kingfisher
2010-02-02 21:08:15

King you are funny, you dont even know how many countries have agreed to take former prisoners from Guantanamo, here is a partial list:

Albania
England
Ireland
Portugal
France
Sweden

If you had your way the Uighur who were more of a danger to China than the US would still be there. But that would take effort and thought.

Posted by Kingfisher
2010-02-02 21:08:15

WFT? The Uighur’s arent a threat to the US, both the Bush admin and the Obama admin came to this conclusion.

King,

Here are some more countries to add to the list, really you should educate yourself a little more.

Slovakia
Hungary
Switzerland
Belgium

Hey King,

A couple more for you:

Canada
Norway

Whats_up,

I noticed you didn’t list any of the countries in the Middle East that accepted GITMO detainees. Could that be because many of them, possible the majority of them, have returned to their violent ways, have participated in acts of terrorism and some have been killed and recaptured on ther battlefield. The entire story paints adifferent picture than a bunch of innocent foreigners snatched up by the minions of the evil Booooosh!!!1!!1 and held without cause until they are released to begin their lives as unicorn ranchers and rainbow painters.

Have an Evil day

Posted by DrEvil
2010-02-03 11:59:18

Yes some have, around 20% that last figure that I heard. So is that reason enough to keep the other 80% locked up, is that what America stands for now?

Yes some have, around 20% that last figure that I heard. So is that reason enough to keep the other 80% locked up, is that what America stands for now?
Posted by whats_up 2010-02-03 12:34:05

20% of the people that got early release from GitMo reoffended. That should be enough evidence for anyone to stop the early release program… except for an America-hating POS like you!

20% of the people that got early release from GitMo reoffended. That should be enough evidence for anyone to stop the early release program… except for an America-hating POS like you!

Posted by StanInTexas
2010-02-03 12:37:48

Really Stan, so those 80% are just shit out of luck, is that the American value that you live by. Even Gen Petraeus doesnt think Gitmo should be left open. Do you know not support the General in the field, interesting change of view from you, why do you think that is, oh wait I know why, because a liberal sits in the White House.

It never ceases to amaze me how spastically the left squirms to avoid the point when it hurts their political viewpoint. Its like watching an epileptic eel.

Posted by Christopher_Taylor
2010-02-03 13:16:30

Almost as amazing as when those on the right change their view based on who occupies the White House. All we heard when Bush was in office was listen to the Generals on the ground, now not so much, why do you think that is CT?

Really Stan, so those 80% are just shit out of luck, is that the American value that you live by. Even Gen Petraeus doesnt think Gitmo should be left open. Do you know not support the General in the field, interesting change of view from you, why do you think that is, oh wait I know why, because a liberal sits in the White House.
Posted by whats_up 2010-02-03 12:40:04

What a pathetic excuse for a lecture. A change because of who sits in the White House? Are you fucking kidding? Where are the war protests, crthns? The demonstrations at the Whiter House? The marches down every main street in the country calling for an end to the war?

They stopped? Really, I wonder why?

We have enemy combatants, captured on the battlefield fighting against Americans. We have released some that have gone back into the fight, and your solution is to release more of them? Your hatred of American military personnel is noted, crthns.

See what I mean? Avoid the issue at hand, at all costs, no matter what. Why? Because it is so humiliatingly damaging to their utopian dreams.

Your hatred of American military personnel is noted, crthns.

Posted by StanInTexas
2010-02-03 14:33:00

I dont hate them Stan, I agree with them, Gitmo needs to be closed. Why dont you support them, after all this is what the General in charge of the War on Terror wants, what he has publically proclaimed. Are you saying that he hates American soldiers as well?

Where are the war protests, crthns? The demonstrations at the Whiter House?

Posted by StanInTexas
2010-02-03 14:33:00

Those protests still occur Stan, perhaps you just dont follow along well enough.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/06/AR2009100603714.html

Hey look it even takes place at the White House, you were saying Stan?

Hey look it even takes place at the White House, you were saying Stan?
Posted by whats_up 2010-02-03 15:19:23

IT? You mean ONE? A protest at the White House? When Bush was in office, you could barely go a week without one of the major networks covering a huge anti-war protest in some city around the country. So whre are they? What happened to all that Anti-War sentiment, crthns. It all seems to have dried up. No more marches on Washington? No more die-ins and fake coffins and soldiers names on crosses at the Washington Mall. None of this. It just sort of dried up… LAST JANUARY!

You and your ilk base your entire existance and your entire viewpoint of this country upon who is in the White House. Presidential lies, wars, sexual harassment… no problem is it is a Democrat. BIG DEAL if it is a Republican.

And it was the Liberals telling us all that General Petraeus was a liar and a pawn of the Bush White House. Now suddenly he says something you like and he is a hero and to be unconditionally believed?

You are the biggest two-faced bastard I have ever encountered, crthns. Piss on you and piss on your hypocritical lectures.

Posted by StanInTexas
2010-02-03 15:27:53

Oh poor Stanley, those darn pesky facts. The fact is that the current Sec of State, the current Joint Cheif of Staff and the former Joint Chief of Staff and former Sec of State all agree that Gitmo should be shut down, but somehow those who agree with them in your words: “hate American soldiers”. Those opinions who matter, the generals on the ground want the place closed, shouldnt we listen to them Stan.

Posted by StanInTexas
2010-02-03 15:27:53

Stan, those protests are still taking place, you just dont seem to be noticing them. Look here is another one that just took place a few days ago:

http://www.secretsofthecity.com/mnspeak/9-of-our-own-arrested-at-white-house-anti-war-protest

These peoples views dont change with who is in the White House, they at least have integrity, something you seem to be lacking.

Posted by whats_up 2010-02-03 15:34:17

Typical dumb-as-shit Liberal.
A Military leader says something you don’t like, and they are General Betray-Us and a pawn of the Bush Administration. Then, when they say something you like, it is suddenly “Hey, Look Everyone, I agree with what this military person said. I really do love those babykillers!”

Won’t work, crthns. You and your ilk have been very clear that you hated this war, it’s personnel, and everything is stood for… when Bush was in office. Now that Obama is there, You are suddenly on board.

It is pathetic to watch how hypocritical you are. And all this, just to distract from the fact (and the topic of this post) that Obama again LIED to you about closing GitMo and all you can do is bitch about Republicans. When are you and the reast of the Liberals here going to accept responsibility for ANYTHING?

It is pathetic to watch how hypocritical you are. And all this, just to distract from the fact (and the topic of this post) that Obama again LIED to you about closing GitMo and all you can do is bitch about Republicans. When are you and the reast of the Liberals here going to accept responsibility for ANYTHING?

Posted by StanInTexas
2010-02-03 15:44:04

Stan

He didnt lie to us, Gitmo is still going to close, it is just taking longer. Poor, poor Stan, those damn facts just keep getting in your way.

He didnt lie to us, Gitmo is still going to close, it is just taking longer. Poor, poor Stan, those damn facts just keep getting in your way.
Posted by whats_up 2010-02-03 15:51:50

You means facts like this, crthns:
On January 22, 2009, Obama signed the Executive Order that gravely asserted that Gitmo would be closed “no later than 1 year from the date of this order.”

That would be January 22, 2010. What is the date of today? Oops. Facts again, crthns.

And ANOTHER lie from Obama.

That would be January 22, 2010. What is the date of today? Oops. Facts again, crthns.

And ANOTHER lie from Obama.

Posted by StanInTexas
2010-02-03 15:58:46

Except that Obama has told us that it is going to take longer, as adults we understand that timetables dont always work and some more time is needed. Only children believe that every timetable will be meet exactly as planned.

Except that Obama has told us that it is going to take longer, as adults we understand that timetables dont always work and some more time is needed. Only children believe that every timetable will be meet exactly as planned.
Posted by whats_up 2010-02-03 16:24:36

Then maybe he should have revised his Executive Order, instead of letting it expire and blaming Republicans for his own failure.

And now you say “timetables don’t always work”. Liberals sure had a different attitude when Bush and Cheney and Rumsfield were in place. Not that being consistent matters to you.

GITMO is NOT going to close. Get it through your smelly hiipie heads. Eventually, the One (PBUH) may move the prison operation out of Cuba but the terrorists will still be prisoners and the prison guards will still be Americans.

I’ll explain this in terms that even the local trolls can understand. Let’s say your favorite crackhouse, Internationl House of Crack, ceases operations but the same people are selling the same sh!t the next day at Crack ‘R Us three blocks away. Has anything really changed?

Have an Evil day

Posted by whats_up
2010-02-03 12:34:05

SO, we know 1 of 5 is a dedicated terrorist. What are the other 4 doing? We don’t know. You don’t know. The One (PBUH) doesn’t know Maybe, they are not doing anything. Maybe they have become unicorn ranchers or rainbow painters. Maybe, they are just better at not getting caught. Maybe, they are support personnel for the 1 conducting terrorist attacks. Most military and paramilitary organization have 4-5 support people for every 1 conducting operations.

I’m glad you are willing to give the benefit of the doubt to terrorists. Why do leftists like yourself tolerate the views and actions of terrorists but you condemn the views of your fellow citizens who you disagree with?

Have an Evil day

I’m glad you are willing to give the benefit of the doubt to terrorists. Why do leftists like yourself tolerate the views and actions of terrorists but you condemn the views of your fellow citizens who you disagree with?

Have an Evil day

Posted by DrEvil
2010-02-03 18:20:31

Not everyone at Gitmo was a terrorist Dr Evil.

Not everyone at Gitmo was a terrorist Dr Evil.
Posted by whats_up 2010-02-04 10:46:59

Really? So how did they end up in GitMo, crthns?