But, hey, this is the perfect time for conditionless talks with Iran, right?

Maybe Obama hasn't apologized enough. (/sarc)

In related news, this is exactly what the "contained" and "harmless" Hussein (Saddam) was doing in Iraq. Only somebody stopped them before the centrifuges started spinning. I wonder who that was?

Funny how as Iran's stocks of uranium grow and their programs get discovered, suddenly they need finer-enriched uranium for "medical purposes", when up until now they've said they've sought power only. And guess what? They've asked Obama to sell it to them to spare them the inconvienence of making it themselves. I wonder how big of a bow the Appeaser-in-Cheif will wrap it up with?

Sadam was building a secret underground plant in Iraq, Mike?

He had a nuclear plant at one time, D Vega, which Israel bombed. He had 500 tons non-weapons grade uranium left from it, though, and it was the type which could be turned into weapons grade.

Posted by D-Vega

2009-09-25 09:44:35

Not sure about a secret underground plant, but Saddam was certainly attempting to out a nuclear program together. That much was made clear even by the UN reports.

And the knees jerk right on cue…I love it.

Now you've made me whip out the David Kay Iraq Survey Group Report:

"With regard to Iraq's nuclear program, the testimony we have obtained from Iraqi scientists and senior government officials should clear up any doubts about whether Saddam still wanted to obtain nuclear weapons. They have told ISG that Saddam Husayn remained firmly committed to acquiring nuclear weapons. These officials assert that Saddam would have resumed nuclear weapons development at some future point. Some indicated a resumption after Iraq was free of sanctions."

"The ISG nuclear team has found indications that there was interest, beginning in 2002, in reconstituting a centrifuge enrichment program."

"Let me just give you a few examples of these concealment efforts, some of which I will elaborate on later:

· A clandestine network of laboratories and safehouses within the Iraqi Intelligence Service that contained equipment subject to UN monitoring and suitable for continuing CBW research.

· Documents and equipment, hidden in scientists' homes, that would have been useful in resuming uranium enrichment by centrifuge and electromagnetic isotope separation (EMIS)."

Saddam and Ahmadenijad know how to play the UN like a fiddle. Saddam was going to start building them as soon as he got the UN off his back. Ahmadenijad uses the same concealment techniques but is more bold because his country isn't blanketed by no-fly zones and UN inspectors. He's plainly in violation of sanctions and treaty obligations, so what does he do? Asks Obama to sell him more refined uranium.

And what did Obama say just recently? Negotiations with Iran with no preconditions were still on the table, even though Obama himself knew about this secret Iranian nuclear facility at the time.

Posted by Mike_M

2009-09-25 10:10:12

Thanks Mike, that's exactly the report I was thinking of.

good thing we got those filthy bearded muslim fuckers in NY and CO…..they would have loved to detonate something like Iran has.

There's a lot of "resumes" in there, Mike. That means it wasn't happening.

Its like saying Sadam would've kept killing people. Well, duh. The guy was a weapons lover.

But he wasn't building anything, and we didn't stop him before the centrifuges starting spinning.

And yes, this story about Iran is not good news for the U.S.

Actually, in retrospect, too much capital of all kinds were spent on Iraq. It may have been better long-term to take out Iran a long time ago. Even in the early 80's.

Now, how can the support be built to invade or attack Iran?

Now, how can the support be built to invade or attack Iran?

Posted by D-Vega

2009-09-25 11:31:26

You're joking, right? In the last 6 months of Bush's presidency the fearful meme of the left was that Bush was going to start a new war in Iran. Now, you're all about going in there?

President Obama can't even decide if he's going to double down and send enough troops to Afghanistan (The Good War) to maintain the peace and security needed to convince tribal leaders to work with us instead of the Taliban, but you seriously think he'll order serious actions in Iran?

He just threw Israel under the bus at the UN, and you expect him to do something to avert the nuclear capabilities of Israel's biggest threat?

I just find it hard to believe that you're serious.

I just find it hard to believe that you're serious.

Don't waste your time taking D-Vega seriously. He lost all claim to being a serious commenter when he became an Obama drone.

Now, how can the support be built to invade or attack Iran?

Posted by D-Vega

2009-09-25 11:31:26

Well, I am sure the Poles will jump right up and stand by President Obama. Oh wait, never mind. Maybe the Brits will if Obama can find the time to meet with their leader instead of snubbing him.

Let's face it, we didn't have that many nations with us on both Afghanistan and Iraq. But in WWII, the Allies were a dozen nations and that seemed to be enough to get the job done. And I am sure that after Obama gets done apologizing for what we did in WWII, we can get on with building a coalition to attack Iran.

Who do you think would join us? France is sounding tough. The Germans will have to wait until after their election on whether to send troops with no guns or sit this one out. Russia and China have a greater chance in joining with Iran than with us. The only nation that will willing join us and actually help would be told to stay home by the Obama Administration.

But this is one problem I do blame on Bush. He should have taken care of this on his watch and punting it down the road to the next President just made it harder. He should have gone for broke and taken out Iran and Syria when we did Iraq. We ended up fighting them anyways upto today by the fighters and supplies both nations have pumped into the was effort in Iraq. Not taken out Iran is Bush's fault.

I just find it hard to believe that you're serious.

First of all, he didn't throw Israel under a bus. At all. Throwing them under the bus would be cuttng off their billions in aid. Any criticism of Israel doesn't automatically equal abandoning Israel.

Second of all, there should indeed be a fear of starting another war in Iran, a country that could promise to be more formidable than either Afghan or Iraq. Especially if we were to strike first. It wasn't a "fearful meme", it was something that people on the right were seriously pushing, and are pushing to this day.

I always believed that Iran's reform has to come from within.

It's put us in quite a pickle when we have two sizable occupations on either side of Iran. Invading Iraq was truly a war of choice that we may pay even more for long-term.

This is indeed news, and not a shocker, because we have documented proof. So, what will the rightosphere's take on this be? Obama, Obama, Obama, are not ideas on how to address it beyond waving their penises around.

And what did Obama say just recently? Negotiations with Iran with no preconditions were still on the table, even though Obama himself knew about this secret Iranian nuclear facility at the time.

When major talks between enemy countries begin, with one issue larger then them all, it is truly absurd to demand the enemy concedes on said issue before talks even begin.

That was the Bush/Republican/Conservative strategy, which only resulted in all enemy countries further along in the weapons programs than they've ever been before.

Those are good points, BIG.

Really, a military strike is not even needed. All those European countries have to do is stop doing business with Iran. Simple enough. Certainly easier than committed blood & troops.

"It may have been better long-term to take out Iran a long time ago. Even in the early 80's."

Of we could hop in the Delorean and show America what a huge mistake they were making in electing Jimmy Carter in 1978.

But barring that, we already have a plan.

1. Take out a radical Islamic dictatorship that harbored Al Qaeda in Afghanistan, a country bordering Iran.

2. Take out a radical "secular" (you know since Saddam only wrote a Koran in his own blood) dictatorship that was intending to build and use WMDs in Iraq, a country bordering Iran.

3. Wait for the Iranian people to rise up and demand democracy like their neighbors have.

Hey, guess what? It worked! Only we elected a President that loudly preached neutrality in this delicate internal Iranian matter while the mullahs tortured and murdered all the people who were pro-democracy. (Never mind Obama had no problem barging into Honduras in defense of a would-be dictator.)

Bush set up Obama to be the hero in the Middle East. The guy that won the War on Terror and defeated the Axis of Evil. Instead Obama chose to appease Ahmadenijad and the mullahs and leave them atop their network of uranium centrifuges.

Gimme a few minutes, Mike. There's a lot wrong with your post.

Easier said than don, Vega. Remember all those sanctions on Iraq, and countries weren't allowed to sell certain stuff to Iraq? Yet, countries like France, Germany, and Russia, among others, continued to sell banned material to Iraq.

And, let's not forget Oil For Food. How'd that work out? The UN couldn't even run it correctly.

You won't get countries like Venezuala to stop doing business with Iran, nor, many Islamic countries, among others.

Do we want to go with the military solution? Not really. That is a big step. But, eventually, when Iran has ignored sanction after sanction, speech after speech, and are still attempting to build nuclear weapons (the good thing is that they are apparently incompetent, since it is taking them so darned long to make one), what do we do? Let them start trotting them out? Throw another sanction their way that will be ignored?

Unlike with North Korea, it would be very easy to nail their nuke sites with little danger of massive response from Iran (with NK, you have the city of Seoul, with 10 million people, sitting in easy range of massive amounts of NK missiles. NK is also playing a game of "give me x and I will stop being a bad boy," rather than a serious threat to America.)

At some point, if Iran continues working towards a nuclear weapons program, and ignoring harsh words and sanctions, what do we, Vega?

Actually, all I need is this one:

Hey, guess what? It worked!

None of that stuff worked.

Jimmy Carter? Nothing prevented Reagan from invading Iran if he wanted to. Carter screwed up, but you expected him to invade Iran over the hostages?

"take out the radical islamics harboring AQ"? We didn't really do that either. Karzai just stole an election, and doesn't control squat outside of Kabul. The very same warlords who may/may not have worked with the Taliban may/may not work with us or Karzai either.

Take out a securlar dictatorship? And replace it with what exactly? A liberal democracy? Or a cleric-influenced tribal gov't along the lines of Iran & Afghan? Who can really say at this point?

"wait for the Iranians to rise up"? This I would agree with, and yet the drumbeats from the right don't indicate a holding pattern.

"neutrality in this delicate internal Iranian matter"? Obama has never taken a neutral position on Iranian nukes. He took a position of talks with Iran in order to avoid nukes and open war. You want him to take an active role in someone else's strife, which is not appropriate. In either Iran or Honduras.

"Bush set up Obama to be the hero in the Middle East."? That is the second biggest joke in your post. If Bush was setting up Obama to be a hero, he had the same ass-backwards perspective that he had with a lot of matters.

He left Obama with two large committments, who have become bigger over the course of the past two years, and have no substantial end or drawdown in sight. And Obama hasn't really changed any strategy yet when it comes to either. As Bush was to the Middle East, Kennedy was to Southeast Asia.

"The guy that won the War on Terror and defeated the Axis of Evil."? Bush came nowhere near affecting North Korea or Iran. EXCEPT in making them speed UP their weapons programs. There very little that Bush did that would help Obama in the position he is in now. Its one of the main reasons Obama is President.

Instead Obama chose to appease Ahmadenijad and the mullahs and leave them atop their network of uranium centrifuges.

There has been absolutely no act of appeasement by this country to Iran.

It's put us in quite a pickle when we have two sizable occupations on either side of Iran.

Whaddya know, a Liberal finally noticed that we have a huge presence on either side of Iran. Unfortunately, the implications of that eludes his grasp and he once again descends into berating Bush for freeing the Iraqis from Saddam. So close to understanding the concept of "strategy," and yet so far.

None of that stuff worked.

Really? The Iranians didn't rise up and march in the streets to demand freedom and democracy? If only we'd had a decent President who stood up for American ideals, the Iranian regime would now be a part of history. Unfortunately, we got the Obamessiah.

D-Vega: Its like saying Sadam would've kept killing people. Well, duh. The guy was a weapons lover.

But he wasn't building anything, and we didn't stop him before the centrifuges starting spinning.

Libs go batshit about people with loaded guns. Saddam’s WMD programs where loaded guns. When it behooved liberals, they where bad news and Saddam was a real danger. It wasn’t until Bush decided to do something about the problem, that it suddenly wasn’t a big deal anymore. Anyway, people on the left seem to be historically challenged, so let me give you some important facts nobody, but especially our own media, wont repeat these days.

If 9-11 had not happened the French and Russian would have removed all sanctions from Iraq in a matter of a few months. After a major oil deal with Saddam that would give the Russians and French exclusive access to his oil fields (funny how they now belong to the Iraqi people) was struck, both told the US and Britain in the UN that they would roll back the sanctions and veto any action by the US or Britain to the contrary, with Chinese help to boot!

I guess the French and Russians had gotten tired of making millions of the Oil-for-Food scam, and where already licking their chops and counting the tens if not hundreds of billions they where gonna make, not just with the oil, but ramping up Saddam’s war and WMD machines. Saddam’s WMD programs – the science & know how, the scientists, the machinery, and the materials – were still in excellent shape. And with the Russians, Chinese and Europeans always ready to make a fast buck selling this stuff to thugs, he would have had these programs back up & running in weeks.

Just because we didn’t luck out and find a thousand gallons of weaponized Anthrax didn’t make Iraq’s WMD threat any less of an issue or threat. The capability to make the things, and definitely the will, was there. I am sure I do not also have to pint out Saddam was one of the few people on this planet that proved he also had the will to use them. After all he gassed thousands of his own people.

Even with the 9-11 attacks, chances where that the Russians and French would have eventually, in a few years, let Saddam off the hook. Lucky for us Saddam was just not smart enough to pretend to comply and speed this up, and Bush was tired enough of the shenanigans to make the call to get rid of Saddam, rather than wait until after he had gotten his WMDs and used them in the future to cause more harm, to deal with him.

The Iranians are building nukes now. All we get from you leftist twits is hot air. Soon you twerps are going to find yoursleves wishing someone that would do the hard things was in charge, and not this used car salesman..

I predict it might be right about when Iran is able to use it's terror connections to funnel a dirty bomb (or worse) into S. America via the terrorist camp we know is there and right on up through Mexico onto I-135 and into the heartland. What happens if they bomb Omaha or KC? It would disrupt coast to coast rail transport in no small way since those are the two major central hubs.

They only have to announce that the Sunburn cruise missilse China supposedly sold Iran are now nuclear tipped, after a successful nuke test. Then, the Islamic Republic of Iran announces that they are now charging a $100 per barrel tax on oil for every tanker trying to go thru the Straits of Hormuz or else they will use their nukes to close the Straits.

Instant depression in the West as oil heads north of $300 per barrel. Our economy rapidly makes the Great Depression look like the roaring 80's.

Without. Firing. A. Shot.

That's not likely to happen either, Nixon, considering that it would destroy the economy of Iran as well.

You can dream, though.

Really? The Iranians didn't rise up and march in the streets to demand freedom and democracy? If only we'd had a decent President who stood up for American ideals, the Iranian regime would now be a part of history. Unfortunately, we got the Obamessiah.

Posted by CavalierX

2009-09-25 13:25:33

Shows how little you know of how things work in Iran, actually had the United States done what you said it would have given legitimacy to the current powers in Iran that a foreign nation was meddling with things. By not publicly stating there support Idiotsticks regime couldnt make that statement stick and everyone in Iran understood that it was the Iranian people doing this, not the meddlesome United States, fortuantly intelligent people were at the helm of US diplomacy at the time, that is why you still have unrest in Iran.

that is why you still have unrest in Iran.

Posted by whats_up

2009-09-25 15:30:22

Except for the ones who were killed for protesting. Or jailed for protesting. I'll bet they are thankful for that "intelligent" US response.

Y'know, except for the dead ones…

The hilarious thing is that leftists STILL claim there's no nuclear threat from Iran, that they aren't trying to make nukes, that there's no proof.

everyone in Iran understood that it was the Iranian people doing this

Since they were the ones doing it, didn't they already know? Seriously, do you sometimes do things and then suddenly wonder whether some foreign country somehow made you do them? A fascinating look inside what passes for the "mind" of a Liberal, folks.

By not publicly stating there support Idiotsticks regime couldnt make that statement stick and everyone in Iran understood that it was the Iranian people doing this, not the meddlesome United States

And that ended up how, exactly? Oh, yes: with Ahmadeinejad and the Mullahs still in control, still murdering dissenters in the streets, and getting acknowledged as the "legitimate" regime by the Obamessiah and the UN, at which the evil bastard gets to make speeches instead of getting thrown in Gitmo the second he sets foot in America. Hey, great job there, you really showed those thugs up! It's so much better for the Iranian people this way than if we had supported their once-in-a-lifetime push for a new government!

That's not likely to happen either, Nixon, considering that it would destroy the economy of Iran as well.

And the sanctions and trouble they have been dealt so far, as they stubbornly continue to push towards those nuclear weapons, coupled with the billions they have wasted to make them, have not already destroyed most of Iran's economy, without deterring them a bit I might add, D-Vega? Maybe the one dreaming is you?

Shows how little you know of how things work in Iran, actually had the United States done what you said it would have given legitimacy to the current powers in Iran that a foreign nation was meddling with things.

I might agree, except there was a minor matter of Iranian protesters writing their signs in English, aimed at the English speaking world, which, primarily, is the USA. Oh, and then there were all those calls from the protesters for help from America, and all the thank you's on Twitter and stuff from the actual protesters to Americans.

Iran trying to build nukes?

But this cannot BE!

Wasn't it but 18 months ago MSNBC and The Usual Suspects were telling us that the National Intelligence Estimate proved Bush was lying about Iran??

considering that it would destroy the economy of Iran as well.

How would it? Since we are unable to develop our domestic oil supplies courtesy of the assholes on the left, the US and the west would still have to buy oil somewhere. Chavez is ass deep with Iran, he would probably cut off oil shipments in solidarity with his brother in Iran.

My scenario isn't something Nixon wishes for, but to deny it would work leads Nixon to think you are rather naive.

might agree, except there was a minor matter of Iranian protesters writing their signs in English, aimed at the English speaking world, which, primarily, is the USA. Oh, and then there were all those calls from the protesters for help from America, and all the thank you's on Twitter and stuff from the actual protesters to Americans.

Posted by William Teach

2009-09-25 21:04:59

Yeah, that would make a difference….if the English speaking world would be willing to invade Iran.

Make the case….The Us should invade Iran now….because the signs are right…If not the US…our allies…

make the case that we should engage in another war…

Yeah, that would make a difference….if the English speaking world would be willing to invade Iran.

Make the case….The Us should invade Iran now….because the signs are right…If not the US…our allies…

With a populace already revolting against their oppressive masters making any kind of military action on our part wholly unnecessary, I wonder why you would make s statement like this Mr. Miller. Has your ID been hijacked? I am used to smarter fare from you.

All we needed to do is flat out side with the populace and tell them we felt their pain, then freeze the leader's moneys everywhere. Once they can not pay their thugs – they use Palestinian thugs so they can make sure their loyalty is only to the almighty cash they pay them for a reason – their prison state collapses. If this WH claims they did not know this then they are kids playing at an adult game, and we should kick them all out ASAP. If they did know this, and still went the way they did, a callous political calculation at best, they are scum and we should kick them out as well.

make the case that we should engage in another war…

Is that you Hoggo? Maybe crthns? The rmiller I knew would not do dumb crap like this.