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10 More “You Lie” Moments On Health Care
Written By : John Hawkins

The aftermath of Joe Wilson shouting out “You lie” at a shameless liar in the midst of a shameless lie about health care has turned out to be one of the most Orwellian moments in recent memory.

After Wilson’s outburst, liberals, in and out of the mainstream media, rushed to tell us that it was Wilson, not Obama who was wrong. Why, there was simply no way that illegals would be covered!

But then, a funny thing happened: the Senate started working to close the loophole that Wilson pointed out. You know, the one that allowed illegal aliens to get coverage. Soon thereafter, the White House quietly followed the Senate’s lead and started backing that provision.

Meanwhile, the liberal netroots, which had almost unanimously said Joe Wilson was the liar, started yelling at the top of their lungs that the bill shouldn’t be changed to fix a problem they claimed didn’t exist 24 hours earlier.

Unfortunately, this sort of deception has been the rule, not the exception in the Democrats’ health care push. In fact, Barack Obama has sold health care by saying, in effect, “Anybody who has anything negative to say about health care reform is just spreading myths.”

It’s a shame that Barack Obama has chosen to go this way, because our health care system does desperately need to be reformed and conservatives would be very willing to work with the Democrats to do it. In fact, in a recent poll of 74 conservative bloggers, every single one of them said that they’d be “willing to support health care reform that primarily emphasized market based reforms.” If Obama were to take that approach or even if he were to simply focus on helping the 8-10 million Americans who want health insurance but can’t afford it, I suspect he’d have no trouble at all getting strong bipartisan support for a bill.

Instead, we’re being fed a steady diet of deception by the very same politicians who are telling us to “trust them” while they take over 1/6 of the U.S. economy. So, if there are any other Republicans in Congress who can take the heat, there are a lot of other lies about health care that still need to be addressed.

1) The President is working with Republicans: Obama has refused to meet with Republican leaders on health care since April.

2) Republicans haven’t suggested a plan for health care: Republicans have actually submitted 35 plans.

3) The public option won’t put the insurance industry out of business and lead to a government takeover of health care: Of course, it will. That’s the whole purpose of putting it in the bill. Don’t take my word for it:  listen to Barney Frank explain it in his own words.

4) Medicare won’t be cut to fund this health care bill: Actually, there are $500 billion in cuts to Medicare planned to help pay for this bill.

5) The health care plan won’t add “one dime to our deficits either now or in the future.” There is simply no bill that fits that description winding its way through Congress. According to the neutral Congressional Budget Office, the House bill adds $220 billion to the deficit over 10 years — and even those numbers rely on very unlikely streams of revenue coming into the program. Moreover, the CBO only estimates numbers 10 years out. Over the long haul, all evidence points to costs skyrocketing into the stratosphere just as Social Security and Medicare have over time.

6) Preventative care will be required in these bills and it’ll save money: Studies show that preventative care increases, not decreases costs. That’s not only because of the cost of the tests, but because it leads to large numbers of people being treated for potential problems that would never end up coming to fruition.

7) Health care reform will help create more jobs: That’s simply not true. According to the Natural Federation of Independent Businesses, this health care bill would wipe out 1.6 million jobs.

8) Abortion won’t be covered under the bill: Unless the bill specifically says abortion isn’t covered, it’s covered by default. Abortion is not mentioned in the House bill and thus, is covered.

9) This bill won’t lead to rationing of health care and people being denied life saving operations: Of course, it will. Barack Obama himself has even alluded to it with his famous, “Maybe you’re better off not having the surgery, but taking the painkiller” quip. In nations like Canada and Britain, long waits for surgeries and people being denied proven life saving operations for financial reasons is commonplace. How can anyone believe that we’re going to copy their system and not have the same result?

10) Obama’s “Plan” doesn’t have these problems you’re talking about: Obama hasn’t submitted any sort of plan to Congress. In other words, there is no special Obama plan. His only “plan” is to sign anything that Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi can push through Congress.

At the end of the day, there’s only one question you need to ask yourself to decide whether you should support health care reform: Do you trust Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Barack Obama and the army of bureaucrats in DC enough to allow them to make life-altering medical decisions for you and your children? If not, then it’s time to stand up, speak out, and take action before this bill is passed and irrevocably changes our country.

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  • Mike_M

    The biggest lie of all is that this is a health care reform bill. Bull. It's a government takeover of the health of every American.

    The first sections of the bill detail how a health care Commissioner and the HHS Secretary will be empowered to dictate the terms of private insurance policies, personally set the profits of insurance companies, and replace hundreds of years of proven actuarial calculations with arbitrary fiat.

    They will give billions of dollars to radical leftist groups like ACORN to go door to door in neighborhoods and set up shop in schools to pressure and usurp the health care decisions of families.

    There is a provision that mandates the government walk into hospitals and clinics and unplug imaging devices until an arbitrary percentage for device use is reached.

    This bill has nothing to do with getting people insurance. Obama admitted as much. It's about the boot of big government in your face, forever. Obama and the Democrats want the power to decide who sees a doctor and what kind of care they get, and to kill the people they don't like. If this was about health insurance it would be an easily read and understandable 20-page bill. Cloaking fascism takes mushrooming versions of a byzantine 1000-page monstrosity.

  • CoolCzech

    I find interesting no one thought twice about how Obama mentioned all the "lies" his healthcare debacle opposition supposedly said.

  • http://conservativebootcamp.com martinhale

    …and to kill the people they don't like.

    I read this morning that in the UK, the Liverpool Care Pathway, the means of killing off patients who're judged to be terminal, kills an estimated 20,000 people a year, and further, that 28% of the families are never informed of what the doctors have decided for their relative.

    But the larger point which John makes, that health care reform is built on a carefully crafted set of lies, is spot on accurate. Under the guise of broadening coverage for Americans, which is a major problem in and of itself because of the provider shortage it will cause, this "reform" movement is at it's heart just an attempt to take over up to one-sixth of our economy. It's not enough that the government owns significant shares in our largest banks (an atrocity committed under Bush) and two of our three auto producers, these people want the health insurance companies and the organisations which rely on revenues from health insurance of all types to fall under the control of the government. I can see people like Barney Frank rubbing hands together greedily while drooling over all the political patronage they can dole out to contributors in the form of cushy government health regulation jobs (which are exempt from having insurance which is subject to their reforms) and the ample retirement benefits they offer. This health insurance plan is Chicago-style politics at it's worst, and you can be guaranteed that the juiciest plums will go to FOB – Friends of Barry.

  • CoolCzech

    I missed a comment whats_up made in an abortion-related thread a short while back:

    Sorry CC totally disagree with this statement, no one including parents should be able to tell a women, no matter her age, what she can and cant do with her body.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-11 15:09:40

    What a remarkable statement!!

    This, from the people that routinely feel free to order around pregnant women not to drink wine in restaurants!

    Or push around the overweight about what they can or cannot eat?

    But let's think this thru. Don't we as a society routinely tell people what they can do with their bodies? As in, don't introduce drugs into them, for example?

    whats_up's comment is so wrong and so self-contradictory on so many different levels, it's truly difficult to know where to begin replying to it.

  • http://TheNixonTape.Com Dick_Nixon

    great article. Nixon bets this isn't the hope and change a lot of the rubes voted for.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    This, from the people that routinely feel free to order around pregnant women not to drink wine in restaurants!

    Or push around the overweight about what they can or cannot eat?

    Exactly, CC. One minute it's their bodies, the next minute it's for the "good of society."

    whats_up's comment is so wrong and so self-contradictory on so many different levels, it's truly difficult to know where to begin replying to it.

    Which is why he'll never directly respond to questions. He's a hypocrite. For example, whats_up has no problem with babies dying but is annoyed when I'm OK if he dies. Why should I care for his life when he doesn't care for other lives? Who the hell gave him the right to determine who should live or die?

    Remember, human beings once thought that other human beings were sub-standard, which was only an excuse to justify slavery.

  • Mike_M

    Posted by CoolCzech

    2009-09-15 10:25:21

    Of course there's no intellectual consistency when the left talks about individual privacy. Liberals will a woman's right to abort a pregnancy, but not to smoke a cigarette in the place of her choosing? To sell a kidney? To eat to excess or even which foods to consume?

    Liberals couldn't care less about privacy. They want power over life and death. They want the power to control the living through health care, and the power to use abortion as a tool of social engineering. Now they promote it as a means of population control, if they remain in power they will eventually command it as leftist dictatorships do in Cuba, China, and the British Government "health" system.

    Obama Science Czar and wacko crank John Holdren has advocated for government forced abortions and setrilization, and a worldwide dictatorship o carry it out (The Planetary Regieme).

    These people worship death and demand unlimited power, and they're in the United States government right now. Oh, they're also for Obama's Health Care Takeover. I wonder why?

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    But let's think this thru. Don't we as a society routinely tell people what they can do with their bodies? As in, don't introduce drugs into them, for example?

    Or determine which legitimate drugs may be marketed. Regulating drugs is telling the general public which drugs may be sold vs. which drugs are prohibited.

  • whats_up

    Which is why he'll never directly respond to questions. He's a hypocrite. For example, whats_up has no problem with babies dying but is annoyed when I'm OK if he dies. Why should I care for his life when he doesn't care for other lives? Who the hell gave him the right to determine who should live or die?

    Remember, human beings once thought that other human beings were sub-standard, which was only an excuse to justify slavery.

    Posted by Kingfisher

    2009-09-15 10:37:30

    How many times are you going to perpetuate this lie King, I have a serious problem with babies dying, I dont like it, I dont like abortion, HOWEVER I believe it is a bigger crime for the government to Mandate that women have children, talk about govt intrusion into our lives, I thought you were for less govt King? Again I hate abortion, but I hate the govt telling women that they must have babies more, it is choosing between the lesser of two evils.

  • Mike_M

    I forgot to add in the statement of Democrat-appointed Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg in which she let it slip that liberals thought that Roe vs. Wade was designed not to protect privacy but to slaughter people, "particularly growth in populations that we don't want to have too many of", as she so eloquently stated.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    How many times are you going to perpetuate this lie King, I have a serious problem with babies dying,

    Your first response was that you support socialized medicine in a thread that showed that socialized medicine determines who gets to live or die. Fuck off and die.

    I dont like it, I dont like abortion, HOWEVER I believe it is a bigger crime for the government to Mandate that women have children,

    And government also mandates how children should be taught about contraception in the public schools. The government currently rewards mothers who have illegitimate children, when will it change that policy? Fuck off and die.

    talk about govt intrusion into our lives, I thought you were for less govt King?

    So your answer is to get the government MORE involved with our lives through socialized medicine and let unwanted children die? Fuck off and die.

    Again I hate abortion, but I hate the govt telling women that they must have babies more, it is choosing between the lesser of two evils.

    No, you love abortion because you voted for one of the biggest supporters for abortion. Choosing the lesser of two evils is still evil. Fuck off and die.

  • Mike_M

    "Again I hate abortion, but I hate the govt telling women that they must have babies more, it is choosing between the lesser of two evils."

    Having a baby is more evil than sucking its brain out with a vacuum cleaner and tossing it in a dumpster? Or mulching it with foreceps? Or injecting it with poison?

    I'm more centrist on abortion that a lot of conservatives, but you may convince me of the scandalous evil of the left's positions yet, whats_up.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    Obama Science Czar and wacko crank John Holdren has advocated for government forced abortions and setrilization, and a worldwide dictatorship o carry it out (The Planetary Regieme).

    See whats_up? This is the result of that dumbfuck you elected as president. Yes, I know you'll give the typical "I'm against it" speech but you're only doing that because you're a coward.

    Name one promise Obama made during the campaign that he's keeping. Name one program he's implemented that's working.

    The deficit that you bitched about Bush is now far higher. How's that working for you?

    You only want socialized medicine so you can get more disposable income for your selfish life. In other words, you're greedy. When will Obama (a millionaire) give some of his OWN money to the needy?

  • whats_up

    Having a baby is more evil than sucking its brain out with a vacuum cleaner and tossing it in a dumpster? Or mulching it with foreceps? Or injecting it with poison?

    I'm more centrist on abortion that a lot of conservatives, but you may convince me of the scandalous evil of the left's positions yet, whats_up.

    Posted by Mike_M

    2009-09-15 10:48:54

    Not having a baby Mike, being FORCED to have a baby, do you not understand the difference?

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    Again I hate abortion, but I hate the govt telling women that they must have babies more, it is choosing between the lesser of two evils.

    So, once again, you decide to play God and determine who gets to live or die.

    One simple question. Would you be alive today if your mother aborted you? Yes or no? If "no," then why should you be annoyed if I don't care if you live?

  • whats_up

    Posted by Kingfisher

    2009-09-15 10:49:45

    King,

    More exagerating, Holden never advocated for anything of the kind, how can you live in this fantasy world so devoid of reality? Holden was talking about things that have worked in other countries and how its possible that those things might happen here, that is not advocating for that outcome.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    Not having a baby Mike, being FORCED to have a baby, do you not understand the difference?

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 10:50:08

    Ah yes, the "being forced" excuse. Please provide the evidence where women were FORCED to become pregnant. I thought you were all for choice.

    Or do you need us to explain the birds and the bees to you?

  • CoolCzech

    Here's where your argument breaks down, whats_up:

    You act as if anyone required a woman to get pregnant in the first place. Rape aside, that is NEVER the case. So NO ONE is “mandating” that a woman have children. That was HER decision when she engaged in the reproductive act.

    The unspoken liberal attitude towards pregnancy and children in general is that they are somehow an imposition or (to quote our illustrious Dear Leader) “punishment.”

    In reality, of course, children are our FUTURE. And pregnancy and delivery are no more impositions upon a woman than expecting her to care for a delivered child. Or do you consider such a “mandate” also “wrong?” I suppose you might; after all, expecting a women to feed her child, nurse her child, etc., IS telling her “what to do with her body,” too, isn’t it?

    Pregnancy may be an inconvenience… but tough noogies. I feel inconvenienced each time I have to take my body out the front door to go to work, where I am told what to do with my body all the time.

    All your arguments are based on the fundamental assumption that there is something incredibly negative about pregnancy, and incredibly horrific about the simple human responsibility for carrying thru with it.

    You’re quite wrong on that score. Pregnancy is a vital bodily function for the welfare of our collective FUTURE. And it involves TWO bodies.

  • tblrk2006

    Not having a baby Mike, being FORCED to have a baby, do you not understand the difference?

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 10:50:08

    You do not understand how that forces people to exercise more self control. There have to be examples. Sorry.

  • tblrk2006

    More exagerating, Holden never advocated for anything of the kind, how can you live in this fantasy world so devoid of reality? Holden was talking about things that have worked in other countries and how its possible that those things might happen here, that is not advocating for that outcome.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 10:52:27

    Ah yes, more of the he didnt say what he really said coming from obama and co.

  • http://TheNixonTape.Com Dick_Nixon

    Stay on topic, which is how Obamateur has lied from day one about healthcare reform, and everyone on the left is ok with that fact.

  • tblrk2006

    Stay on topic, which is how Obamateur has lied from day one about healthcare reform, and everyone on the left is ok with that fact.

    Posted by Dick_Nixon

    2009-09-15 10:56:00

    Nixon, he didnt lie. He just didnt say what he said.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    More exagerating, Holden never advocated for anything of the kind,

    Honestly, whats_up, sometime you're too FUCKING STUPID for your own good:

    Obama's Science Czar Considered Forced Abortions, Sterilization as Population Growth Solutions
    <a href="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/21/obamas-science-czar-considered-forced-abortions-sterilization-population-growth/

    ” target=”_blank”>www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/21/obamas-science-czar-considered-forced-abortions-sterilization-population-growth/

    Obama science czar Holdren called for forced abortions

    'Comprehensive Planetary Regime could control development, distribution of all natural resources'
    <a href="http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=103707

    ” target=”_blank”>www.wnd.com/?pageId=103707
    Please w_up, tell us that we're making this up again.

    Fuckwad. Beaten again. What's your 'defeated' score now, w_u, 59,381,933?

  • whats_up

    One simple question. Would you be alive today if your mother aborted you? Yes or no? If "no," then why should you be annoyed if I don't care if you live?

    Posted by Kingfisher

    2009-09-15 10:51:35

    Thankfully my mother CHOOSE to have her children, luckily she had that choice. I really am not annoyed by anything you think, I just like to point out your lack of class and hypocracy, after all you claim to be Pro-life, evidently thats not entirely true, color me surprised that you would lie about your beliefs.

  • smelvertising

    human beings once thought that other human beings were sub-standard, which was only an excuse to justify slavery.

    When, in a few centuries at worst, movies have to portray the backwards, superstitious belief that children can be murdered mercilessly for the sole reason of convenience and irresponsibility, I'd wager that the beliefs of abortionists will be significantly toned down from the reality.

    I doubt even the sickest of slavers felt such glee at defining slaves as less-than-human as abortionists do children. Maybe black slaves, but even then I wouldn't be sured the hatred would be comparable.

    being FORCED to have a baby

    Was she FORCED to have sex, which is the one action that has a 100% certainty of being the cause of having gotten pregnant?

    No?

    Then you have no case. And many (if not most) would say you wouldn't have a case even then.

    A woman's choice is BEFORE conception. That, or you agree that some human beings do not get rights and can be murdered with reckless abandon guilt-free. And that is starting to sound suspiciously like the whole point, by the way.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    Thankfully my mother CHOOSE to have her children, luckily she had that choice. I really am not annoyed by anything you think, I just like to point out your lack of class and hypocracy, after all you claim to be Pro-life, evidently thats not entirely true, color me surprised that you would lie about your beliefs.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 10:57:47

    You didn't answer my question. However, your deflection is obvious proof.

    Thank you for proving that you're a liar and that you support babies dying.

  • Mike_M

    "Stay on topic, which is how Obamateur has lied from day one about healthcare reform, and everyone on the left is ok with that fact."

    Exposing the liberal's love of death and power is much more interesting nixon, and is at the heart of the health care debate.

    Liberals think having a baby is evil, but injecting one with saline until it dehydrates into a shriveled dead corpse is happy and fun!

    But trust them, they have your best interest at heart in taking over health care in the name of Ted Kennedy, a drunken murderer.

  • whats_up

    That was HER decision when she engaged in the reproductive act.

    Posted by CoolCzech

    2009-09-15 10:53:02

    CC,

    I know its hard for you to understand, but sex isnt simply to for reproduction, it is also for pleasure. Many people have sex, not to reproduce, but to strengthen their relationship, to have fun, to feel good. All those reasons are why folks have sex.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    More exagerating, Holden never advocated for anything of the kind,

    Honestly, whats_up, sometime you're too FUCKING STUPID for your own good:

    Obama's Science Czar Considered Forced Abortions, Sterilization as Population Growth Solutions
    <a href="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/21/obamas-science-czar-considered-forced-abortions-sterilization-population-growth/
    ” target=”_blank”>www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/21/obamas-science-czar-considered-forced-abortions-sterilization-population-growth/

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    Obama science czar Holdren called for forced abortions

    'Comprehensive Planetary Regime could control development, distribution of all natural resources'
    <a href="http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=103707

    ” target=”_blank”>www.wnd.com/?pageId=103707
    Please w_up, tell us that we're making this up again.

    Fuckwad. Beaten again. What's your 'defeated' score now, w_u, 59,381,933?

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    I know its hard for you to understand, but sex isnt simply to for reproduction, it is also for pleasure.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 11:00:03

    Skydiving is also for pleasure but that doesn't give you the right to bitch if your parachute fails to open.

  • Mike_M

    "I know its hard for you to understand, but sex isnt simply to for reproduction, it is also for pleasure."

    So abortion is a means to maintain that pleasure. Another stark admission.

  • whats_up

    Obama's Science Czar Considered Forced Abortions, Sterilization as Population Growth Solutions

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/21/obamas-scienc...

    Posted by Kingfisher

    2009-09-15 11:00:11

    LOL, more of the same bullshit, he didnt advocate for that King, he was simply stating what might occur and anyone quoting World Net Daily needs to have their head examined. King you can yell it tell your hoarse, doesnt make it true.

  • smelvertising

    I really am not annoyed by anything you think

    You are incapable of even understanding the basics of thought, let alone other people's.

  • tblrk2006

    I know its hard for you to understand, but sex isnt simply to for reproduction, it is also for pleasure. Many people have sex, not to reproduce, but to strengthen their relationship, to have fun, to feel good. All those reasons are why folks have sex.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 11:00:03

    Fine. Then why cant you do it responsibly and without needing something from somebody else that didnt get any of the nooky? Why must you (try to) force people to accept that accidents happen and they need a horrid operation as a result.

  • Mike_M

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 11:03:35

    Looks like we're back to debate by baseless contradiction. Figures the libs have nothing to say in defense of the Ted Kennedy Death Bill besides "nuh-uh!"

  • whats_up

    So abortion is a means to maintain that pleasure. Another stark admission.

    Posted by Mike_M

    2009-09-15 11:01:40

    Really Mike, where was that said, I was responding to CC's idiotic comment that sex was only for reproduction. Conservatives on this board get dumber and dumber every day, do you all take the same pills?

  • whats_up

    Fine. Then why cant you do it responsibly and without needing something from somebody else that didnt get any of the nooky? Why must you (try to) force people to accept that accidents happen and they need a horrid operation as a result.

    Posted by tblrk2006

    2009-09-15 11:05:35

    What exactly are people needing for other people? This post makes no sense whatsoever, why am I not surprised.

  • whats_up

    You are incapable of even understanding the basics of thought, let alone other people's.

    Posted by smelvertising

    2009-09-15 11:04:46

    Thats because you havent had any yet, get back to me when you do.

  • CoolCzech

    "I know its hard for you to understand, but sex isnt simply to for reproduction, it is also for pleasure."

    We understand that, whats_up, but it's also a good idea to remember that the pursuit of pleasure doesn't release one from personal responsibility for the consequences of one's actions.

  • tblrk2006

    What exactly are people needing for other people? This post makes no sense whatsoever, why am I not surprised.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 11:07:45

    Fine, then have obama make it illegal for the govt to fund abortions. That includes planned parenthood. Think next time you post.

  • tblrk2006

    Posted by CoolCzech

    2009-09-15 11:09:25

    How dare you say "personal responsibility" around WU. He elected obama to make sure he could get away with as much PR as possible.

  • whats_up

    Fine, then have obama make it illegal for the govt to fund abortions. That includes planned parenthood. Think next time you post.

    Posted by tblrk2006

    2009-09-15 11:12:40

    It allready is, you really should try and keep up on current federal law.

  • Mike_M

    "Really Mike, where was that said, I was responding to CC's idiotic comment that sex was only for reproduction."

    You said sex is for relationship-building, having fun, and feeling good. Pregnancy is a known potential consequence of sex. If a pleasurable act produces an undesirable result, then aborting the pregnancy is a means to maintain that pleasure.

    Thanks for demanding I lay it out in greater detail.

  • whats_up

    You said sex is for relationship-building, having fun, and feeling good. Pregnancy is a known potential consequence of sex. If a pleasurable act produces an undesirable result, then aborting the pregnancy is a means to maintain that pleasure.

    Thanks for demanding I lay it out in greater detail.

    Posted by Mike_M

    2009-09-15 11:16:58

    Is this what passes for logic in conservative circles? You can have that pleasure wether you are pregnant or not Mike, abortion is not used to maintain that pleasure, the pleasure exists outside of abortion, actually abortion doesnt even factor into wether there is pleasure or not.

  • Mike_M

    "You can have that pleasure wether you are pregnant or not Mike, abortion is not used to maintain that pleasure, the pleasure exists outside of abortion, actually abortion doesnt even factor into wether there is pleasure or not."

    Than why have the abortion?

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    LOL, more of the same bullshit, he didnt advocate for that King,

    Sorry, he did.

    he was simply stating what might occur and anyone quoting World Net Daily needs to have their head examined. King you can yell it tell your hoarse, doesnt make it true.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 11:03:35

    Let's look at the truth again, shall we?

    President Obama's "science czar," John Holdren, once floated the idea of forced abortions, "compulsory sterilization," and the creation of a "Planetary Regime" that would oversee human population levels and control all natural resources as a means of protecting the planet

    That's the same as advocating. Look it up in he dictionary if you don't believe me.

    I noticed that you never claimed that WND is lying. Nice attempt at deflection.

    Thank you for proving me right. Once again, the victory is mine.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    By the way, whats_up, the excerpt is from Fox News, not WND. Interesting how you didn't respond to that.

    Liar. Fuck off and die.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    Interesting how w_u "hates abortion," then spends the rest of the thread advocating for abortion.

    Never once has he ever listed the downside of abortion. Compare his pro-abortion posts compared to his anti-abortion posts. Notice how it is all one-sided.

    Lie as much as you want, w_up, but you favor abortion. You simply don't have the balls to admit it.

  • whats_up

    Than why have the abortion?

    Posted by Mike_M

    2009-09-15 11:23:00

    I dont know, you would have to ask women who have had them.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    Once again, whats_up is opposed to personal responsibility. If abortion is the lesser of two evils, as you claim, then show us when you have EVER opposed abortion. There is not one post for you on this site that has ever addressed the downside.

    You are a liar, so piss off and die.

  • whats_up

    President Obama's "science czar," John Holdren, once floated the idea of forced abortions, "compulsory sterilization," and the creation of a "Planetary Regime" that would oversee human population levels and control all natural resources as a means of protecting the planet

    That's the same as advocating. Look it up in he dictionary if you don't believe me.

    I noticed that you never claimed that WND is lying. Nice attempt at deflection.

    Thank you for proving me right. Once again, the victory is mine.

    Posted by Kingfisher

    2009-09-15 11:23:25

    See this is where you err. Holden never floated the idea to beign with, never adovcated it. Has it occured to you that Fox and WND has the story wrong? I know its hard for you to actually use your own mind instead of just repeating what is put out to you, try it sometime it will help. King you shouldnt be a sheep all your life. Again WND's credibility is well know.

  • whats_up

    Once again, whats_up is opposed to personal responsibility. If abortion is the lesser of two evils, as you claim, then show us when you have EVER opposed abortion. There is not one post for you on this site that has ever addressed the downside.

    You are a liar, so piss off and die.

    Posted by Kingfisher

    2009-09-15 11:28:12

    King,

    How many more times do I need to state the fact? Here let me refer you to one of my previous posts on the matter:

    How many times are you going to perpetuate this lie King, I have a serious problem with babies dying, I dont like it, I dont like abortion, HOWEVER I believe it is a bigger crime for the government to Mandate that women have children,

    Again, I hate abortion, I thinks its bad and shouldnt be undertaken, however I will not FORCE someone to carry a child.

  • Mike_M

    "I dont know, you would have to ask women who have had them."

    Ha, just as I suspected. You're a passionate advocate of abortion until pinned down on why. Then you bail. Too much of a moral coward to put the answer on the record.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    Holden never floated the idea to beign with, never adovcated it.

    And your evidence to support this is…..absolutely nothing.

    Has it occured to you that Fox and WND has the story wrong?

    And has it ever occurred to you that YOU'RE wrong? Obviously not.

    I know its hard for you to actually use your own mind instead of just repeating what is put out to you, try it sometime it will help. King you shouldnt be a sheep all your life. Again WND's credibility is well know.

    Then I'll await for your evidence that PROVES me wrong. And you wonder why you have no credibility here.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    How many times are you going to perpetuate this lie King, I have a serious problem with babies dying, I dont like it, I dont like abortion, HOWEVER I believe it is a bigger crime for the government to Mandate that women have children,

    Which explains your constant persistence supporting abortion.

    Therefore, you support babies dying. You say that its the lesser of two evils which means you support it.

    I will continue to prove you as a liar. I will always remind you of the truth.

    Try again.

  • whats_up

    Ha, just as I suspected. You're a passionate advocate of abortion until pinned down on why. Then you bail. Too much of a moral coward to put the answer on the record.

    Posted by Mike_M

    2009-09-15 11:33:27

    See you seem to be struggling with reality again, I dont advocate abortions, you have it backwards, I actually would advocate not to have abortions, but I would not force that choice on anyone, that is up to the prospective mother to decide, not me.

  • whats_up

    Which explains your constant persistence supporting abortion.

    Therefore, you support babies dying. You say that its the lesser of two evils which means you support it.

    I will continue to prove you as a liar. I will always remind you of the truth.

    Try again.

    Posted by Kingfisher

    2009-09-15 11:36:06

    I support a womans choice King, not abortion.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    Hey whats_up, just a friendly reminder…John Holden advocated forced abortions.

    I'm still waiting for your evidence that shows that Fox News is wrong. Obviously, you came to that conclusion which must mean you read that information somewhere. Where's the link?

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    I support a womans choice King, not abortion.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 11:36:54

    So if a woman chooses abortion your support it. Abortion kills babies so you support the killing of babies.

    Try again.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    I dont advocate abortions,

    Unless a mother chooses to do so, which you support.

    you have it backwards, I actually would advocate not to have abortions, but I would not force that choice on anyone, that is up to the prospective mother to decide, not me.

    I choose not to pay for socialized medicine yet you're all in favor of FORCING me to do so.

    Thank you for playing. Fuck off and die.

  • whats_up

    Hey whats_up, just a friendly reminder…John Holden advocated forced abortions.

    Posted by Kingfisher

    2009-09-15 11:38:10

    No he didnt, and the Senate obviously didnt think so either!

  • whats_up

    I choose not to pay for socialized medicine yet you're all in favor of FORCING me to do so.

    Thank you for playing. Fuck off and die.

    Posted by Kingfisher

    2009-09-15 11:40:44

    Thats because you dont get to decide where your tax money goes, sorry man that is how it works.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    No he didnt, and the Senate obviously didnt think so either!

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 11:41:09

    What part of "provide evidence" do you not understand? This issue was never brought up in the Senate.

    From Fox News:

    But many of Holdren's radical ideas on population control were not brought up at his confirmation hearings; it appears that the senators who scrutinized him had no knowledge of the contents of a textbook he co-authored in 1977, "Ecoscience: Population, Resources, Environment," a copy of which was obtained by FOXNews.com.

    How can the Senate not think so if the question was never discussed?

    I win again.

    Where's your link?

  • http://conservativebootcamp.com martinhale

    WU, full marks to you for studiously following and applying Alinsky Rule 5: "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon." and Alinsky Rule 8: "Keep the pressure on. Never let up." But, on the other side, you earn failing marks for missing the point of Alinsky Rule 7: "A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag."

    In all the many months in which you've argued in favour of abortion on demand, every time the topic arises, I've never once seen your arguments persuade anyone to change their mind on the topic. But hey, hang in there – who knows – maybe sometime before you shuffle off this mortal coil, you'll manage to accomplish that. I wouldn't hold my breath though, if I were you.

    Remember, this is a conservative site, it's not really our collective focus or purpose to have to convince you to change your viewpoint – need I point out that yours is the minority view here, so the onus to change minds really falls on your shoulders, not ours.

  • whats_up

    So if a woman chooses abortion your support it. Abortion kills babies so you support the killing of babies.

    Try again.

    Posted by Kingfisher

    2009-09-15 11:38:49

    Yes I would defend her decision, I would tell her its unfortunate and not the decision that I would have made, I would try and educate her on why it is the wrong decision, but ulimately it is her decision, not your's, not mine, hers and I would defend that.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    Thats because you dont get to decide where your tax money goes, sorry man that is how it works.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 11:42:14

    And you don't get to decide who lives or who dies among the innocent. Sorry man but that's how it works.

    You could kill yourself to prove otherwise. Then we'd all be happier.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    Yes I would defend her decision,

    So you support abortion.

    I would tell her its unfortunate and not the decision that I would have made, I would try and educate her on why it is the wrong decision, but ulimately it is her decision, not your's, not mine, hers and I would defend that.

    Again, you support abortion, by your own words.

  • Mike_M

    "See this is where you err. Holden never floated the idea to beign with, never adovcated it."

    That's a flat out lie. Holdren laid it all out in his 1977 book "Ecoscience". He also defended his positions while waffling enormously to avoid embarassing Obama in the below exchange with Senator Vitter.

    The man is a kook and a crank that has advocated for mass murder and a world dictatorship, and Obama has him running science in the White House.
    http://groups.google.com/group/alt.global-warming

  • whats_up

    In all the many months in which you've argued in favour of abortion on demand, every time the topic arises, I've never once seen your arguments persuade anyone to change their mind on the topic. But hey, hang in there – who knows – maybe sometime before you shuffle off this mortal coil, you'll manage to accomplish that. I wouldn't hold my breath though, if I were you.

    Remember, this is a conservative site, it's not really our collective focus or purpose to have to convince you to change your viewpoint – need I point out that yours is the minority view here, so the onus to change minds really falls on your shoulders, not ours.

    Posted by martinhale

    2009-09-15 11:43:43

    Martin,

    Before you can change someone's mind they have to be open to that possibility, that is not what occurs on this site.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    Mike, this is the part where whats_up thinks that constantly repeating, "He didn't, he didn't, he didn't!" is evidence.

    Watch what happens. This is the part where whats_up gets slapped around again.

    This happens almost on a daily basis.

  • whats_up

    Again, you support abortion, by your own words.

    Posted by Kingfisher

    2009-09-15 11:45:11

    No, by my own words I support her choice, you seem to struggle with reading, perhaps some remedial courses would help.

  • tblrk2006

    Thats because you dont get to decide where your tax money goes, sorry man that is how it works.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 11:42:14

    Um, yes you do. What country do you live in?

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    Before you can change someone's mind they have to be open to that possibility, that is not what occurs on this site.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 11:46:11

    This, coming from someone who STILL hasn't provided any evidence to his claim that Holdren never supported forced abortion.

    Sorry, w_u, but you're cornered on this one.

  • whats_up

    Posted by Mike_M

    2009-09-15 11:45:24

    And Vitter seemed to understand what he was saying Mike, as he voted to confirm him.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    So you're for allowing abortion as long as you don't have to take any moral or emotional responsibility for it. That's liberalism in a nutshell, folks.

    Posted by Mike_M

    2009-09-15 11:49:04

    Ladies and gentlement, whats_up is the Pontius Pilate of the 21st century.

  • whats_up

    You cannot support a decision if the decision involved something that you opposed.

    You support abortion.

    Posted by Kingfisher

    2009-09-15 11:49:15

    Sure you can King, happens all the time, parents are constantly supporting their childrens decisions without liking what those decisions are, really you should try living in the real world.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    Really? Then why did my money go to support a war that I didnt agree with?

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 11:49:52

    Um, because Congress voted for it? What country do you live in? You can change your elected representatives.

  • whats_up

    So you're for allowing abortion as long as you don't have to take any moral or emotional responsibility for it. That's liberalism in a nutshell, folks.

    Posted by Mike_M

    2009-09-15 11:49:04

    Mike,

    I am not morally responsible for others decisions, thats on them not me.

  • tblrk2006

    No, by my own words I support her choice, you seem to struggle with reading, perhaps some remedial courses would help.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 11:47:34

    And she chose abortion b/c you wanted her to have that option. Effectively taking some responsibility from her. You support abortion. Once people don’t have that option they will make better choices. The lone fact that you want it on the table means you support it…you cannot have your cake and eat it too. Why are you against people making better decisions?

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    Sure you can King, happens all the time, parents are constantly supporting their childrens decisions without liking what those decisions are, really you should try living in the real world.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 11:50:59

    In other words, you support abortions, including forced abortions.

    Where's that link? Or should we file this under the same file as you claiming that David Duke supported Bush in 2004?

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    I am not morally responsible for others decisions, thats on them not me.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 11:51:56

    You can advocate for making abortion illegal. Interesting how you don't give a rat's ass about the children who die as a result. Your failure to think about this proves our point.

  • whats_up

    Um, because Congress voted for it? What country do you live in? You can change your elected representatives.

    Posted by Kingfisher

    2009-09-15 11:51:08

    Yep I sure can, not sure how that equates to me being able to decide where my tax money goes.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    I am not morally responsible for others decisions, thats on them not me.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 11:51:56

    I thought it took a village to raise a child. I thought that liberals were all for "the children."

    Hypocrisy noted.

    You support abortions.

  • whats_up

    You can advocate for making abortion illegal. Interesting how you don't give a rat's ass about the children who die as a result. Your failure to think about this proves our point.

    Posted by Kingfisher

    2009-09-15 11:53:17

    But I dont think that it should be illegal King, that is taking the choice away from the prospective mother and that is not something that I support. I support educating her, I support advocating that she doesnt make that decision, I DO NOT support making the decision for her.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    Yep I sure can, not sure how that equates to me being able to decide where my tax money goes.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 11:53:28

    If our elected representatives followed the Constitution, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

    Or is this another one of those "living document" issues?

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    But I dont think that it should be illegal King, that is taking the choice away from the prospective mother and that is not something that I support. I support educating her, I support advocating that she doesnt make that decision, I DO NOT support making the decision for her.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 11:54:52

    Still nothing about the child?

    You support and advocate for abortions.

  • whats_up

    Once people don’t have that option they will make better choices

    Posted by tblrk2006

    2009-09-15 11:52:01

    Really tblrk this is the route that you want to go? This leaves the door open to a whole host of possibilities dont you think. "wink"

  • http://wastingtimewithalex.com/ AlexinCT

    Liberals couldn't care less about privacy. They want power over life and death.

    Liberals only care – we should really say pay lip service to, because they don’t care about anything meaningful – about what helps push their agenda. This healthcare insurance reform plan, which is a cover for the government take over of all those trillions of dollars, the decision making process where that money goes – to democrats and their causes which is why tort reform is not part of this reform despite the fact it would have a major impact – and the power for bureaucrats to choose who gets helped and who doesn’t, is proof of that. It makes both the concepts of the books “Brave New World” and “Animal Farm” look tame. Have no doubt that ultimately this is about power, and power over life and death, is the best kind to assure a perpetual grip on government. Just look at how vehemently the defenders of this disastrous policy defend it for proof.

    Also, as one lib recently told me: abortions are the cure for undesirables, stupid people, and conservatives (not sure why that was there because no conservative I know should find themselves in a position they need abortions in). Healthcare in the hands of government is an even more powerful tool to do this with.

    How many times are you going to perpetuate this lie King, I have a serious problem with babies dying, I dont like it, I dont like abortion, HOWEVER I believe it is a bigger crime for the government to Mandate that women have children

    This is like saying I have a huge problem with murder, but I hate government telling people they are not allowed to murder, so I prefer to allow the murder crthns. As dumb as it gets. Besides, if people like you had a problem with the murder of children, you would at least try to hold the women that need abortions accountable. After all, they knew what would get them pregnant, how to prevent that, and ignored that. Never see any of that. So please stop pretending you care.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    Interesting, whats_up bitches that (fill in the blank) millions of people have no health insurance then intentionally deflects the issue about the baby in the abortion debate.

    The right to live is the most basic right. Without life, all other rights are moot.

    You support abortions.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    But I dont think that it should be illegal King, that is taking the choice away from the prospective mother and that is not something that I support. I support educating her, I support advocating that she doesnt make that decision, I DO NOT support making the decision for her.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 11:54:52

    You didn't answer my question. That's the fourth time for this thread alone. What about the child?

    You support abortions.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    Oh, by the way whats_up (or should I call you Pontius Pilate), did you know that John Holdren supported forced abortions? There's plenty of evidence that proves this.

    Just a reminder.

  • DrEvil

    So ultimately, Whats_up is OK with the murder of another human being as long as it has not yet emerged from the womb. Nice standard. Maybe, we can expand on it so that it is OK to murder other human being under specific circumstances. Why limit it to people who are still in utero? Perhaps, we could get rid of the old, the feeble, the disabled, the gays, gypsies, Jews, slavs and other undersirables. Once you loose respect for human life and decide that some lives are expendable where do you draw the line? We know in the past that the left (Communists and Nazis specifically) were fairly liberal in moving that line. You either respect human life or you don't. You either support the murder of human beings or you don't; there is no middle ground because dead is dead no matter how much the murderer struggled with the decision.

    Have an Evil day

  • Mike_M

    "And Vitter seemed to understand what he was saying Mike, as he voted to confirm him."

    I can't seem to find any record of the actual vote, but it's true that Holdren recanted many of his previous positions at the hearing (but never before or since, oddly enough).

    So Obama's Science Chief wrote a 1000-page book advocating mass murder and dictatorship, than came back with a "whoopsie" three decades later? I'm not sure which is more horrifying, that Obama nominated somebody who admitted he jumped to dire political conlcusions without knowing the facts, or that Obama thought such a casual dismissal of such craven statments was sufficient.

    Worshipping death without taking the blame: that's the liberal way.

  • whats_up

    I can't seem to find any record of the actual vote,

    Posted by Mike_M

    2009-09-15 12:09:10

    Mike,

    From King's link via Foxnews:

    confirming his nomination by unanimous consent both in committee and in the full Senate.

    Not one senator voted against him.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    From King's link via Foxnews:

    confirming his nomination by unanimous consent both in committee and in the full Senate.

    Not one senator voted against him.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 12:16:38

    And the same link clearly stated that not one Senator asked Holdren about his book. The topic was never discussed because the Senators didn't have any information about that. Why did you ignore that part?

    (Epic Fail)*5,283,381

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    he was simply stating what might occur and anyone quoting World Net Daily needs to have their head examined.

    Is this the same WorldNetDaily that claimed that Van Jones was a truther? Where's Van Jones now?

  • whats_up

    Posted by Kingfisher

    2009-09-15 12:21:26

    That or they dimissed it for what it was, a textbook talking about what could occur, but of course you will believe what you want to.

  • whats_up

    Is this the same WorldNetDaily that claimed that Van Jones was a truther? Where's Van Jones now?

    Posted by Kingfisher

    2009-09-15 12:23:12

    No its the same WorldNetDaily that claims Obama is a muslim and was born in Kenya, it is the same WorldNetDaily that many conservatives are railing against for its outright fabrication, but hey if you want to try and use it as a legitimate source feel free.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    No its the same WorldNetDaily that claims Obama is a muslim and was born in Kenya,

    So you don't read WND but am absolutely sure what it stated. Actually, that's NOT what it said. Try obtaining facts before you make another ass of itself.

    it is the same WorldNetDaily that many conservatives are railing against for its outright fabrication, but hey if you want to try and use it as a legitimate source feel free.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 12:26:03

    List these "conservatives" who say this. I'll give you a tip: I've already read about this so I can pretty much guess what you'll say. But, go ahead, maybe I'm wrong.

    By the way, where's that link about Holdren? You claim that the Fox story is false, where's the link proving that?

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    That or they dimissed it for what it was, a textbook talking about what could occur, but of course you will believe what you want to.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 12:24:27

    That's the fifth time you didn't answer my question.

    You're lying and another victory for me.

  • Mike_M

    "Not one senator voted against him."

    They were probably content to let him embarass Obama and expose the AGW myth with his idiotic statements.

    In the same article Holdren stands by his laughable 1986 statement that Global Warming will kill a billion people by 2020.

    Gaia had better get a'killin' to make up the deficit so far. She's going to need to off 100 million people a year for the next decade solid by global warming alone to make Holdren's statement good.

    But he fits right in with Obama and Biden, the Liars-in-Chief.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    Regarding Holdren.

    Who is the majority party for the committee that confirmed him? So your claim means absolutely nothing.

    Did Holdren author the book in question, yes or no? If "yes" then name the book where he admitted to being wrong.

  • whats_up

    Posted by Kingfisher

    2009-09-15 12:32:16

    Like I said if you want to use WND as a source feel free, just dont be surprised by the laughter that will follow.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    Like I said if you want to use WND as a source feel free, just dont be surprised by the laughter that will follow.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 12:39:39

    Like I said, considering that you have intentionally ignored my question, don't be surprised if I continue.

    You can laugh all you want but where is Van Jones now?

    In fact, please laugh, it will be easy for us to identify the idiot in the crowd.

  • whats_up

    Who is the majority party for the committee that confirmed him? So your claim means absolutely nothing.

    Posted by Kingfisher

    2009-09-15 12:36:35

    What does that have to do with every Republican senator voting for him?

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    Like I said if you want to use WND as a source feel free, just dont be surprised by the laughter that will follow.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 12:39:39

    What's your excuse for the Fox News link?

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    What does that have to do with every Republican senator voting for him?

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 12:44:09

    Do those senators know about Holdren's book? Why have you ignored that question?

  • whats_up

    Do those senators know about Holdren's book? Why have you ignored that question?

    Posted by Kingfisher

    2009-09-15 12:45:12

    I dont know, perhaps you should ask them?

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    I dont know, perhaps you should ask them?

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 12:46:31

    If you don't know then you cannot claim that the senators voted for Holdren knowing what he wrote.

    Another kick in the ass to w_u. All too easy.

  • jimb123

    But I dont think that it should be illegal King, that is taking the choice away from the prospective mother and that is not something that I support. I support educating her, I support advocating that she doesnt make that decision, I DO NOT support making the decision for her.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 11:54:52

    Um, so do you support people having the choice to take drugs that we (as a society) deem illegal? After all it's someones choice as long as we educate them.

    Do you support someone having too many adult beverages and then choosing to drive (even if not caught and not harmining anyone else)? Why(not)?

    Are there any limits you would place on abortion? If so, why?

    Liberals speak of choice as it is the only thing that should be taken in to account when making moral decsions. There are some choices that are morally wrong – killing a baby before (or after) it is born is one of those actions that is morally wrong. It is against natural law (that old "life and liberty" thingy) and cannot be justifed by appealing to an idea such as choice.

  • whats_up

    What's your excuse for the Fox News link?

    Posted by Kingfisher

    2009-09-15 12:44:18

    That Fox feels fit to perpetuate the myth, Holdren wrote a textbook, in it he lays out what has happened across the world in regards to population control. He then hypothosises on what could happen here, only die hard conservatives would take that to mean that he "advocated" for that. Like I said you live in an alternate reality devoid of fact or reason, I feel sorry for you.

  • whats_up

    Um, so do you support people having the choice to take drugs that we (as a society) deem illegal? After all it's someones choice as long as we educate them.

    Posted by jimb123

    2009-09-15 12:49:06

    This brings up a whole different argument, but short story yes I believe that people have a right to ingest drugs of their choosing. Society has deemed many drugs illegal that are comparativly harmless for purely political reasons.

  • whats_up

    If you don't know then you cannot claim that the senators voted for Holdren knowing what he wrote.

    Posted by Kingfisher

    2009-09-15 12:47:59

    Why not, you seem to be making the claim that they didnt know and have no problem doing that, the fact is neither of us know what the senators knew, what we do know is that not one of them voted against Holdren for whatever their reasons.

  • tblrk2006

    Society has deemed many drugs illegal that are comparativly harmless for purely political reasons.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 12:53:30

    Like what?

  • whats_up

    Like what?

    Posted by tblrk2006

    2009-09-15 13:01:47

    Cannabis being the glaring example, opium would be another.

  • whats_up

    Like what?

    Posted by tblrk2006

    2009-09-15 13:01:47

    Many prescription drugs are illegal unless obtained from a physician. But yet they arent harmful enough to stop the advertising of those very same pills.

  • tblrk2006

    Cannabis being the glaring example, opium would be another.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 13:03:43

    Harmless? Son, you HAVE smoked yourself stupid and are an example of why it isnt harmelss. And yes, i did go to college.

  • whats_up

    Harmless? Son, you HAVE smoked yourself stupid and are an example of why it isnt harmelss. And yes, i did go to college.

    Posted by tblrk2006

    2009-09-15 13:05:44

    I state realatively harmless and yes it is.

  • tblrk2006

    I state realatively harmless and yes it is.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 13:08:02

    What does obama think?

  • http://PatriotPost.US bthewolf

    Again, I hate abortion, I thinks its bad and shouldnt be undertaken, however I will not FORCE someone to carry a child.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 11:30:28

    Basically WU it's your position, that a woamn should be allowed to have sex and not have to suffer the CONSEQUENCES of the act. That is as absurd as it gets.

    Outlawing abortion doesn't force the mother to carry the child. it FORCES to suffer the consequnces of her own stupidity. If she didn't want to have a child then she should NEVER had sex that MIGHT result in a child, period. You are literally granting the mother the right to kill arbitrarily and without consequnce. Under all other Legal and moral circumstances this is wrong, but WU wants to let mothers do this. No male can make this choice, so the abortion is SEXIST. No one who not pregnant can choose to kill another especcially their own child at a whim. Only a mother who's baby is not yet fully developed has this very extra-legal right. All while completely ignoring the right of the baby.

    WU your postion on abortion is such a convulted legal mess I'm surprised you're even alive!! It nearly gave me anuerism trying to sort it out. It give me great pleasure to say that you are scum, among the lowest of all possible life forms for such an ammoral position. I hope that someday you suffer in the same way a baby when it's aborted. So live long suffer in misery, WU.(That may not be Christian, WU, but it is between and me Christ. And I'm sure we can work it out)

  • whats_up

    It give me great pleasure to say that you are scum,

    Posted by bthewolf

    2009-09-15 13:30:02

    As are you my friend as are you.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    Why not, you seem to be making the claim that they didnt know and have no problem doing that,

    No, it is you who is implying, as fact, that the senators approved Holdren knowing what he wrote. If you don't know then you cannot claim that they knew about the book.

    You must be a great tap dancer because you've been dancing around this issue.

    Therefore, let's hold another hearing about Holdren and, this time, ask him about the book.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    It give me great pleasure to say that you are scum,

    Posted by bthewolf

    2009-09-15 13:30:02

    You realized that you just insulted scum. :-P

  • whats_up

    Therefore, let's hold another hearing about Holdren and, this time, ask him about the book.

    Posted by Kingfisher

    2009-09-15 13:37:55

    To late, they allready gave their approval, unanimously as I recall.

  • whats_up

    If you don't know then you cannot claim that they knew about the book.

    Posted by Kingfisher

    2009-09-15 13:37:55

    I have never made that claim King.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    To late, they allready gave their approval, unanimously as I recall.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 13:39:33

    Without knowing about the book. Let's go back to what you said, shall we:

    More exagerating, Holden never advocated for anything of the kind, how can you live in this fantasy world so devoid of reality? Holden was talking about things that have worked in other countries and how its possible that those things might happen here, that is not advocating for that outcome.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 10:52:27

    Now, where is your evidence that claims that Holden never advocated for anything of the kind? You still have refused to answer the question.

    It doesn't matter what the Senate said, the question still remains.

  • whats_up

    Now, where is your evidence that claims that Holden never advocated for anything of the kind? You still have refused to answer the question.

    Posted by Kingfisher

    2009-09-15 13:42:06

    Because no where in the book does he say that he wants those things to happen, also he has come out numerous times and said that he doesnt approve nor condone these things.

  • whats_up

    Without knowing about the book.

    Posted by Kingfisher

    2009-09-15 13:42:06

    How do you know that they didnt know about the book, how can you make this claim, where you at the senate meeting that took place? What leads you to believe that they didnt know about the book?

  • Mike_M

    "He then hypothosises on what could happen here, only die hard conservatives would take that to mean that he "advocated" for that."

    Yeah, maybe you're right. He's just a liar and a crank that has recanted his own false and laughably absurd doomsday predictions about the climate for political expediency despite decades of work and voluminous writings.

    Just more proof of Obama's total lack of judgement and experience. What do you think the odds are that Obama will get any meaningful science counsel from a man that falsely predicted the deaths of a billion people? I mean, just look how successful Van Jones was at creating Green Jobs! He did nothing except attack Obama's political critics for six months while he drew a government salary, then resigned in disgrace when his crackpot views became too damaging for Obama to bear. I guess you need to be a tax cheat to have real job security with Obama.

  • whats_up

    Yeah, maybe you're right. He's just a liar and a crank that has recanted his own false and laughably absurd doomsday predictions about the climate for political expediency despite decades of work and voluminous writings.

    Posted by Mike_M

    2009-09-15 13:48:16

    Did you take your looney pills today Mike? By all means tell us how he is a liar?

  • CoolCzech

    Again, I hate abortion, I thinks its bad and shouldnt be undertaken, however I will not FORCE someone to carry a child.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 11:30:28

    What exactly is so wrong about "forcing" a mother to carry the child she conceived thru her own actions?

    And you DO realize you just slipped up, and admitted that a child, not just "tissue," is what is at issue here, right?

  • Mike_M

    "Did you take your looney pills today Mike? By all means tell us how he is a liar?"

    In 1986 he said a billion people would die from global warming by 2020. In the real world, the earth is cooling, hurricane activity has decreased, and the human population continues to increase.

    Like I said before, unless the Earth starts killing 100 million people a year for the next decade through global warming alone, the man is a liar and a fraud. The majority of his time frame has expired without his lunatic babbling being proven utterly wrong.

    Now he's Obama's #1 Quack with a Cabinet-level position.

  • Mike_M

    "The majority of his time frame has expired without his lunatic babbling being proven utterly wrong."

    Change that to *with* his lunatic babbling being proven uttely wrong.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    Because no where in the book does he say that he wants those things to happen, also he has come out numerous times and said that he doesnt approve nor condone these things.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 13:44:34

    Then provide a link to your evidence. You didn't read the book so how do you know he didn't say those things?

    How do you know that they didnt know about the book,

    How do you know they did?

    how can you make this claim,

    Right back at ya'.

    where you at the senate meeting that took place? What leads you to believe that they didnt know about the book?

    (Right back at ya') * 2

  • Mike_M

    http://belfercenter.ksg.harvard.edu/publication/1
    How's this? An op-ed by Holdren showing his bitter partisan side clearly, just chock full of lies. He's such a zealot that he dismisses the sun as a cause of climate change out of hand, and demands his critics prove a negative to vindicate their argument.

    This is shoddy rhetoric that wouldn't even pass muster in high school debate club. And he calls himself a scientist? But what would you expect from the (I'm not kidding) "Teresa and John Heinz Professor of Environmental Policy at the Kennedy School of Government"?

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    Posted by Mike_M

    2009-09-15 14:25:14

    Mike, whats_up got beaten up big time today so he's in his "prove it" mode.

  • whats_up

    In 1986 he said a billion people would die from global warming by 2020. In the real world, the earth is cooling, hurricane activity has decreased, and the human population continues to increase.

    Like I said before, unless the Earth starts killing 100 million people a year for the next decade through global warming alone, the man is a liar and a fraud. The majority of his time frame has expired without his lunatic babbling being proven utterly wrong.

    Posted by Mike_M

    2009-09-15 14:12:43

    So his prediction was wrong, this is what you are calling him a liar about? Really that is where you want to go with this? So can we say all of you who predicted that Obama would lose the presidential election are now officially liars?

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    So his prediction was wrong, this is what you are calling him a liar about?

    Did he say this, yes or no? Why not address the question.

    Really that is where you want to go with this? So can we say all of you who predicted that Obama would lose the presidential election are now officially liars?

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 15:08:59

    Actually, we never said that.

  • whats_up

    Posted by Kingfisher

    2009-09-15 14:20:13

    So you dont know, thanks that is what I thought.

  • whats_up

    Actually, we never said that.

    Posted by Kingfisher

    2009-09-15 15:10:48

    Actually many of you did, friggin liars.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    So his prediction was wrong, this is what you are calling him a liar about?

    Actually, if you bother to READ Mike's statements, Mike isn't calling him a liar about the prediction.

  • whats_up

    Did he say this, yes or no? Why not address the question.

    Posted by Kingfisher

    2009-09-15 15:10:48

    yes he made that prediction and it turned out wrong, thats not the same as lying King, you do understand that right?

  • whats_up

    Actually, if you bother to READ Mike's statements, Mike isn't calling him a liar about the prediction.

    Posted by Kingfisher

    2009-09-15 15:11:45

    Struggling with that reading comprehension again huh? Here is Mike's satement:

    In 1986 he said a billion people would die from global warming by 2020. In the real world, the earth is cooling, hurricane activity has decreased, and the human population continues to increase.

    Like I said before, unless the Earth starts killing 100 million people a year for the next decade through global warming alone, the man is a liar and a fraud. The majority of his time frame has expired without his lunatic babbling being proven utterly wrong.

    What part of that are you confused about King?

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    What part of that are you confused about King?

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 15:14:30

    The fact that you can count to 5 without needing two hands.

    Like I said before, unless the Earth starts killing 100 million people a year for the next decade through global warming alone, the man is a liar and a fraud. The majority of his time frame has expired without his lunatic babbling being proven utterly wrong.

    Anyone with basic knowledge of English knows that Mike was claiming Holdren to be a fraud based upon Holdren's claim of "killing 100 million people," not about his false prediction of global warming.

    Do you enjoy getting whupped this much, w_u?

    Besides, what does this have to do with the actual topic of this thread?

  • whats_up

    Posted by Mike_M

    2009-09-15 14:25:14

    Please Mike, this isnt a partsian paper at all, its an op-ed piece written by Mr. Holdren, this is the best that you could come up with, my my must be a rough life you have right now if this is the best that you can do to prove how much of a "radical" this man is, oh my the sky is falling, the sky is falling.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    This also means that you agree that Holdren made these statements, w_u. That contradicts what you said before:

    Because no where in the book does he say that he wants those things to happen, also he has come out numerous times and said that he doesnt approve nor condone these things.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 13:44:34

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    Please Mike, this isnt a partsian paper at all, its an op-ed piece written by Mr. Holdren, this is the best that you could come up with, my my must be a rough life you have right now if this is the best that you can do to prove how much of a "radical" this man is, oh my the sky is falling, the sky is falling.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 15:20:31

    Squeal little pig, squeal.

  • whats_up

    Anyone with basic knowledge of English knows that Mike was claiming Holdren to be a fraud based upon Holdren's claim of "killing 100 million people," not about his false prediction of global warming.

    Do you enjoy getting whupped this much, w_u?

    Besides, what does this have to do with the actual topic of this thread?

    Posted by Kingfisher

    2009-09-15 15:19:26

    And his prediction was wrong, again that doesnt make him a liar, you are really reaching here, your idiocy gets worse by the day King, by the day.

  • Mike_M

    "So can we say all of you who predicted that Obama would lose the presidential election are now officially liars?"

    A political prediction is not science. But your comparison is correct since baseless wild-eyed predictions about the climate and groupthink consensus are not science either. They are politics.

    Obama has appointed a shabby political hack as his Chief Science Advisor. Glad to see you agree.

  • whats_up

    Posted by Kingfisher

    2009-09-15 15:20:43

    Try following along, they are on TWO different topics, maybe this is your problem, you cant even figure out what we are talking about.

  • whats_up

    Obama has appointed a shabby political hack as his Chief Science Advisor. Glad to see you agree.

    Posted by Mike_M

    2009-09-15 15:22:32

    So he is not a liar now, I see.

  • http://TheNixonTape.Com Dick_Nixon

    Whats_up is a troll folks. A Nazi loving, multiple name using troll, nothing more. Even Vega proved he was a liar. Nixon would recommend steering clear of him. And he is a big same sex marriage guy (gay).

  • whats_up

    Besides, what does this have to do with the actual topic of this thread?

    Posted by Kingfisher

    2009-09-15 15:19:26

    I dont know, you folks on the right are the ones that brought it up, perhaps you should ask your fellow conservatives.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    Try following along, they are on TWO different topics, maybe this is your problem, you cant even figure out what we are talking about.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 15:22:35

    Squeal little pig, squeal.

    Whats_up is a troll folks. A Nazi loving, multiple name using troll,

    Don't forget, whats_up is happy when babies die.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    I dont know, you folks on the right are the ones that brought it up, perhaps you should ask your fellow conservatives.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 15:25:17

    It's fun watching you squeal like a pig when we kick your ass.

  • whats_up

    Posted by Kingfisher

    2009-09-15 15:25:48

    I see you have nothing left to add, again color me surprised. It is fun watching you get worked up though. Cheap entertainment is priceless in this economy.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    I see you have nothing left to add, again color me surprised. It is fun watching you get worked up though. Cheap entertainment is priceless in this economy.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 15:29:57

    Squeal little pig, squeal.

    You can celebrate more babies being killed as you stated earlier on this thread.

  • Mike_M

    "my my must be a rough life you have right now if this is the best that you can do to prove how much of a "radical" this man is"

    Hey, he's the one dreaming up "scenarios" about mass sterilization, forced abortion, and a Planetary Eco-Dictatorship. In my spare time I like to play golf and video games, not fantasize abut the death and enslavement of billions of people.

  • Mike_M

    "So he is not a liar now, I see."

    Oh he's lied about plenty of other things. But nice to see you finally not contest a truthful point.

  • Realpolitik

    Congratulations, whats_up.

    Far more than a mere *golf clap*, you receive a thundering round of applause for stymieing the whole right wing on this thread. They sputter, they cough, they whimper as you kick their ass up into their empty heads.

    btw:

    Abortion does not kill babies.

    Not having sex goes against God's plans.

    The bulk of Morality is based on the frustrations of the envious.

    Have some champagne, whats_up – you have earned it!

  • whats_up

    Oh he's lied about plenty of other things. But nice to see you finally not contest a truthful point.

    Posted by Mike_M

    2009-09-15 15:38:43

    I see but not about this point that you have been clamoring on about all day, sure, he lied about other stuff, okay sparky.

  • whats_up

    Posted by Realpolitik

    2009-09-15 15:39:26

    It has been fun to watch King get worked up, sure gets his panties in a bunch doesnt he?

  • whats_up

    Hey, he's the one dreaming up "scenarios" about mass sterilization, forced abortion, and a Planetary Eco-Dictatorship. In my spare time I like to play golf and video games, not fantasize abut the death and enslavement of billions of people.

    Posted by Mike_M

    2009-09-15 15:37:30

    I am sure in his spare time Mr. Holdren likes to pursue other intrests as well, perhaps even golf and video games. Nor is he dreaming about the death and enslavement of billions of people, I thought you had agreed to some type of civility in your debates, wild exagerations wont get you there very quick Mike.

  • http://TheNixonTape.Com Dick_Nixon

    Now he is talking to himself. Hitlerboy is here (Realpolitik said Hitler was a great man and dresses up like a Nazi).

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    Have some champagne, whats_up – you have earned it!

    Posted by Realpolitik

    2009-09-15 15:39:26

    Complementing yourself again, w_u? That's the sure sign of a mental disorder.

    I see but not about this point that you have been clamoring on about all day, sure, he lied about other stuff, okay sparky.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 15:41:11

    I see but Mike DID prove the point you refuse to admit, sparky.

  • Realpolitik

    That's the sure sign of a mental disorder.

    Posted by Kingfisher

    Yes, your posts are.

    Get a grip, fella. People live their lives – start to do the same.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    Mike,

    Great job of kicking whats_up's ass again. I realize it is not much of a compliment since w_u's IQ is in the single-digit range.

    We can let John clean up the mess.

  • Mike_M

    “I actually would advocate not to have abortions, but I would not force that choice on anyone, that is up to the prospective mother to decide, not me.”
    So you’re for allowing abortion as long as you don’t have to take any moral or emotional responsibility for it. That’s liberalism in a nutshell, folks.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    Get a grip, fella.

    Posted by Realpolitik

    2009-09-15 15:47:28

    You and your sockpuppet, w_u, are experts in gripping things, realulnatik.

    ROFL!

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    No, by my own words I support her choice, you seem to struggle with reading, perhaps some remedial courses would help.
    Posted by whats_up
    2009-09-15 11:47:34

    You cannot support a decision if the decision involved something that you opposed.
    You support abortion.

  • whats_up

    I see but Mike DID prove the point you refuse to admit, sparky.

    Posted by Kingfisher

    2009-09-15 15:44:30

    I see that selective reality is at play again huh King?

  • Mike_M

    "Nor is he dreaming about the death and enslavement of billions of people, I thought you had agreed to some type of civility in your debates, wild exagerations wont get you there very quick Mike."

    I'm simply repeating Holdren's (supposedly) hypothetical scenarios from his own book. Glad to see you're finally coming around and recognizing them as 'wild exaggerations'. Not very becoming of a Cabinet-level appointee, is it?

  • whats_up

    Um, yes you do. What country do you live in?
    Posted by tblrk2006
    2009-09-15 11:47:38

    Really? Then why did my money go to support a war that I didnt agree with?

  • Realpolitik

    We can let John clean up the mess.

    Posted by Kingfisher

    Ah, exit Mike and birdy. Good.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    Yes, your posts are.

    Oh gee, what an insult! Wow, he really hit me between the eyes with that insult! How can I possible respond to that piece?

    (rolls eyes)

    Get back to your gripping, reallunatik.

  • Realpolitik

    ROFL!

    Posted by Kingfisher

    That's known as a fit. Remember, pencil between teeth.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    I see that selective reality is at play again huh King?

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 15:49:29

    Yeah, but sooner or later, you'll overcome your selective reality.

  • Realpolitik

    he really hit me between the eyes with that insult!

    Posted by Kingfisher

    Obviously – yes.

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    Not very becoming of a Cabinet-level appointee, is it?

    Posted by Mike_M

    2009-09-15 15:49:32

    Normally, you're right. However, to whats_fucked_up, Obama's administration is an obvious exception.

  • http://PatriotPost.US bthewolf

    As are you my friend as are you.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 13:32:41

    Nope sorry I'm not advocating allowing a mother to kill her own child out of convenience. But please keep up the childish comebacks. It's all you really have and it shows just how pathetic a person you really are.

  • Mike_M

    "Great job of kicking whats_up's ass again. I realize it is not much of a compliment since w_u's IQ is in the single-digit range."

    Actually I could care less about him. He has no credibility. Dismantling liberals is a fun learning experience. After all I know way more abuot Holdren and what he represents now than I did at the start of the day.

    Anybody reviewing the evidence can clearly see there's little to no science in Holdren's various rantings. I mean, just his job title is pure gold: "Teresa and John Heinz Professor of Environmental Policy at the Kennedy School of Government". He's a political policy hack, not a scientist.

  • jimb123

    Abortion does not kill babies.

    Not having sex goes against God's plans.

    The bulk of Morality is based on the frustrations of the envious.

    Have some champagne, whats_up – you have earned it!

    Posted by Realpolitik

    2009-09-15 15:39:26

    1. Then what does abortion kill?

    2. Gods plan is called chastity. This means living according to ones current station in life. Sex is given by God to be used between a mand a woman in a marriage context.

    3. Morality is based on natural law. As you brought the big guy into the discussion exactly what does God say about morality?

    4. Champagne? Nah, would be a waste. I suggest some cheap wine.

  • jimb123

    er.

    should be

    between a mand a woman in a marriage context.

    Must engage brain-keyboard interface…

  • jimb123

    double er,

    between a mand and woman in a marriage context.

    it's been along day…

  • http://PatriotPost.US bthewolf

    Abortion does not kill babies.

    Then what does it kill? It a genetically human life form in early development, It has a soul according to God(whom you brought into this discussion) So why is not a baby?

    Not having sex goes against God's plans.

    Having sex for other than procreation IS!

    The bulk of Morality is based on the frustrations of the envious.

    The bulk of morality can easily be defined by using the Bible and God's Word. And that morality is NOT based on envy.

    Have some champagne piss-water, whats_up – you have earned it!

    Posted by Realpolitik

    2009-09-15 15:39:26

    TFTFY, DILDO!!!

  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    Not having sex goes against God's plans.

    Bearing false witness goes against God's plans as well and you violate that routinely.

  • whats_up

    Posted by bthewolf

    2009-09-15 16:00:17

    Classic response coming from you Wolf, hey at least I didnt call you scum right, I meant childish insults and all.

  • http://PatriotPost.US bthewolf

    Classic response coming from you Wolf, hey at least I didnt call you scum right, I meant childish insults and all.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-15 20:39:24

    Classic response, from me, I doubt given you have enough evidence of who I am or what my reponses would be for you to claim anything as CLASSIC.

    I have nothing for but scorn for you. You are the laughing stock of this board. You and Dildo, constantly on the wrong side of morality, intellect, legality, and common sense.

  • whats_up

    I have nothing for but scorn for you.

    Posted by bthewolf

    2009-09-15 23:32:33

    This sums up nicely how I feel about you as well. At least we can agree on how we feel about each other.

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  • http://Kingfisher Kingfisher

    This sums up nicely how I feel about you as well. At least we can agree on how we feel about each other.

    Posted by whats_up

    2009-09-16 01:00:03

    And we know what you think about babies. We all can agree on that as well.

  • whats_up

    And we know what you think about babies. We all can agree on that as well.

    Posted by Kingfisher

    2009-09-16 08:58:46

    No you dont, but you will continue to spread those lies because that is all you have King, so sad the life that you live that you have to intententionally lie about anothers position, unfortunate but karma is a beautiful thing so yours will come around, when it does remember you brought it on yourself.

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