Right Wing News vs. David Frum, Little Green Footballs, Media Matters, & Excitable Andy!

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Right Wing News vs. David Frum, Little Green Footballs, Media Matters, & Excitable Andy!

Written By : John Hawkins

On Monday, I smacked David Frum around on RWN, partially for being David Frum, but mostly for complaining about being denied a spot in the Blogads Conservative Hive.

David Frum did fire back, but honestly, just between you, me, and all the other people who will read this today, I initially wasn’t planning to respond because it was well…very weak tea. It was like Frum wrote the response while he was really sleepy or something. So, what’s the point of rehashing the same old argument, right?

However, something happened that turned me completely around on the idea of doing a post. Blogs started supporting Frum — but, not just any blogs. Andrew Sullivan from the Daily Dish, Charles Johnson at Little Green Footballs and David Brock’s Media Matters all spoke up to defend David Frum.

Hey, wait a second. There’s something about those three websites….Let’s see, they’re all liberal. They all hate anything and everything conservative. They all stick up for Frum — which, and this is probably breaking some heretofore unknown corollary of Godwin’s law, but for a “conservative” to be defended by all three of those websites is like a liberal being praised by Hugo Chavez, Fidel Castro, and Daniel Ortega. Gee, it’s almost like there’s something else. Oh, yeah — didn’t Andrew Sullivan, Charles Johnson, and David Brock all used to be on the Right before they flipped and started attacking everybody on their own side? Now, they’re all defending David Frum who’s making a name for himself by attacking people who are supposed to be on his side? Ah, that’s probably just coincidence. Still, maybe it’s just me, but isn’t it a wee bit odd that all of these websites that spend their days ceaselessly venting their spleen at all things conservative, are all sticking up for David Frum? Weird, isn’t it?

In fact, let’s do a little comparison. All of these websites are going all fuzzy kittens over David Frum, who has a gig at CNN. So, let’s see what they all had to say when another blogger, the much more popular Erick Erickson of Redstate was hired at CNN. David’s a “conservative” blogger and Erick’s a conservative blogger — so, I’m sure the commentary was compatible, right? Let’s find out!

Wow, how strange! Charles Johnson, in his own inimitable way, posted a Jon Stewart video attacking Erickson and wrote a single negative, rambling sentence about it. Media Matters pumped out 1420 words attacking the hire including a section called “Erickson’s history of violent incendiary, sexist, and racially charged commentary” which featured Erick going WAY OVER THE LINE by saying awful things like Michelle Obama is a “marxist harpy wife” (Snicker). Sullivan quoted some silly nonsense about the hire of Erickson “moving the center” to the right because Erick’s an “extreme partisan.” Lord knows we can’t have “extreme partisans” on CNN. We better just leave that channel to unbiased observers of the news like James Carville, Donna Brazile, and Paul Begala.

In any case, there sure does seem to be a big difference in the way those sites view conservative Erick Erickson and “conservative” David Frum, doesn’t there? Gee, there must be some kind of explanation for it, right? I mean, Erick Erickson is a conservative and David Frum’s also a “conservative,” isn’t he? He must be, right? He says so — just like Andrew Sullivan does. Whatever could be the difference between a conservative like Erickson and a “conservative” like Frum in the eyes of websites like Media Matters, Little Green Footballs, and The Daily Dish? If only we knew.

Well, perhaps someday, on a show like Unsolved Mysteries, they’ll figure out what’s really going on there. However, in the interim, let’s take a look at David Frum’s response to Monday’s post. Here’s point #1 from Frum:

1) Observe that Hawkins does not say, “We denied FrumForum admission to the conservative hive because they are not conservatives.” He did not say that because it would be too obviously ludicrous to do so.

Ehr…I kind of did say that. In fact, I said almost exactly that. When Frum’s representative emailed asking to include his website in the Blogads Conservative Hive, my response was in part,

I’m afraid that I don’t consider FrumForum to be a conservative website, so I’m going to have to decline to add you to the conservative hive.

Then, after Frum’s representative responded back with a lame threat from Frum…

I shared your e-mail refusal to add FrumForum.com to the Blogads advertising hive because you don’t consider it conservative to David and he said, “.. You may tell him from me that I consider this decision a fascinating news story in its own right.”

…again, I responded with an email that Frum was cc’d on,

I used to like and respect David Frum. Then, I guess he decided being a small fish in a big conservative pond wasn’t good enough for him. That’s when it appears to me that he made a business decision to trash conservatives for the amusement of the Left. Whatever his motives may be, that’s his decision.

But, if that’s what he wants to be known for, I’m certainly not going to do anything to help him stick a shiv deeper in the back of people who believe the things that I do. Maybe some people are willing to turn a blind eye because they know and like David personally, but I’m not his friend, I genuinely don’t consider him to be a conservative or even someone who’s friendly to the conservative movement, and I’m not willing to give him a pass for the way he behaves.

So, if you or David think it’s a “fascinating news story in its own right,” knock yourself out. Maybe David can write about it the next time he sneers at conservatives for Newsweek.

If somehow, Frum forgot all of those emails, they were also included in the post. But, since they didn’t stick, let me try repeating it slower. I. Do. Not. Consider. David. Frum. To. Be. A. Conservative. I. Also. Do. Not. Think. FrumForum. Is. A. Conservative. Website. Is that plain enough?

Also, Frum quotes me…

[T]he mainstream media loves “conservatives” and “Republicans” who will trash whomever the Left hates most. So, if you’re willing to talk about how Sarah Palin is a hick, Glenn Beck is a crank, Rush Limbaugh is bad for the country, and the Tea Party is bad for democracy, the mainstream media will reward you…

Then adds,

Hawkins does not argue that these statements are false – that e.g. Glenn Beck is not a crank.

I’ve never considered David to be a dumb guy; so I’m a little surprised that he’s this obtuse. On the other hand, maybe David’s used to saying things he doesn’t believe to get a paycheck; so he’s surprised that everyone else doesn’t do the same thing. Whatever the case may be, if David is having trouble keeping up, I will spell it out for him: Sarah Palin is not a hick, Glenn Beck is not a crank, Rush Limbaugh is good for the country, and the Tea Party is good for democracy. In fact, let me go one step further: If I were forced to choose a GOP presidential candidate for 2012 today, it would be Sarah Palin. I watched Glenn Beck’s speech at CPAC and loved it. Rush Limbaugh is one of the people I most admire and I have attended and spoken at Tea Parties.

2) Here’s point #2 from Frum,

Observe next Hawkins’ suggestion as to WHY we do the things we do. It’s not to be considered that we might be trying to solve important problems, even possibly in a wrongheaded way. No – we are total cynics motivated by greed for liberal $.

…Now this is really amazing. We live in a world in which conservative radio hosts actually tape commercials for everything from gold coins to adjustable mattresses. Rush Limbaugh frankly acknowledged to an admiring Zev Chafets: “First and foremost I’m a businessman. My first goal is to attract the largest possible audience so I can charge confiscatory ad rates. I happen to have great entertainment skills, but that enables me to sell airtime.” Sarah Palin deserted her elected office before her term to cash in her economic opportunities. And yet it is I who am supposed to be prostituting my principles for money?

The truth, of course, is just the opposite. A lucre-seeking cynic would do much better to conform to conservative groupthink than to challenge it.

As I said in the last post, I don’t begrudge people on the Right making a living in politics. I’d be pretty foolish if I did, given that I’m a professional blogger. However, I do draw the line with — let’s use Frum’s word here — political prostitutes who label themselves as conservatives while being continuously rewarded by the mainstream media because they’re willing to trash anything and everything that excites people on the Right. In all honesty, I have more respect for people like Kos, Michael Moore, or Paul Krugman than I do for someone like David Frum. At least they don’t make any bones about the fact that they want to kick us in the behinds. Guys like David Frum will kick conservatism down the stairs, happily collect a check from a liberal organization for doing it, and then turn around and say, “It’s outrageous that you don’t trust me! I’m on your side, but you’re just too dumb to know it!”

Let me also add that Frum’s last line there is particularly funny — “A lucre-seeking cynic would do much better to conform to conservative groupthink than to challenge it.” Really? Because it’s no surprise that an unaccomplished airhead like Meghan McCain has a column in the Daily Beast. David Brooks? He’s a very fuzzy thinker — so why does he have a gig at the New York Times? How is it that Kathleen Parker of all people is getting a new TV show on CNN? David, why do you think you have a column at CNN? Do you think Newsweek would have given you a cover story if you were going to say nice things about Rush Limbaugh?

If you were going by talent, personality, or ability to hold an audience, none of the people I’ve just mentioned, including David Frum, have the ability to claw their way up the conservative food chain like Michelle Malkin, Ann Coulter, and Mark Levin have. So, to use David Frum’s word again, they’re willing to prostitute themselves (If Meghan McCain happens to read this, I don’t mean that literally — like a street walker. It means you’re selling out your principles. If you get confused, ask your daddy to hire someone to explain it to you) to the liberals in the mainstream media who want “conservatives” who are willing to tell liberals what they want to hear. This is no secret to David Frum or anybody else who works in this business.

3) Last but not least, from Frum,

Hawkins seems to be suggesting that we go on TV not as individuals, to express our own ideas as best we can, to offer the most useful information we can discover. No – people should appear as representatives of pre-existing tribes: conservatives, liberals, blacks, whatever, to engage in a ritual of synchronized repetition of pre-existing phrases. You are a conservative? You must say THIS – and never that. You must approve THIS – and never admit to doubts about that.

Actually, I, like most conservatives, do not advocate groupthink or demand people rigidly stick to the “company line.” We actually have a simpler request: We just want people who are billed as Republicans and conservatives to actually be on the same side we are. The editorial pages in the newspapers slant liberal. The columnists slant liberal. Even the news in the newspapers slants liberal. Hell, even the TV shows and movies slant liberal. So finally, after all that, you run across a “conservative” in the mainstream media giving an opinion and guess what? He’s been given a platform to speak because he agrees with the liberals. That’s what people like David Frum get paid to do, I’m sick of it, and I’m not doing anything else to reward people like him, including allowing them to get into the Blogads Conservative Hive.

baoxian

No such thing as bad publicity. Especially from this crowd of dull-witted Peter Keatings (men who can never be and don't know it). RWN could be the target of incoherent rants from Chris Matthews and Keith Olbermann before long!

Don't hope for too much though, being a man and all. The angry, emasculated, liberals go after the women (Coulter, Malkin, Palin, etc) hardest because it makes them feel powerful and virile. Understandable since their arguments usually come up a little limp.
http://www.thepiratescove.us/ William_Teach

You can always tell when someone is a fake conservative, because they start yammering on about sticking to a line, engaging in group think. Real Conservatives do not do this. We may hold similar opinions, but, we are able to express them in our own words. And we are not going to defend something when it doesn't jibe with our own political views. We are free thinkers, and if we come to a conclusion that jibes with others, it is because that is what we thought INDIVIDUALLY, not because MoveOn, Media Matters, Center for American Progress, or someone else told us to think it.

BTW, can't wait to see what Excitable Chucky has to say when he wakes up from a jazz and alcohol induced haze. I'm sure Sharmuta and Killgore Trout are eagerly email him this a.m. Also, he has that program, which he admitted to, which scans the 'Net for any mentions. You may just end up on the same Chucky list as R.S. McCain, John! :D
http://twitter.com/eapr9 eapr9

David published his piece in the National Post in Canada.
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/06/30/…

I posted your reply.
StanW

Liberals do not attack Conservative women because “it makes them feel powerful and virile”, Bao. They attack Conservative women because they are INCAPABLE of feeling powerful and virile. They are bullies, picking on the weak and small (getting more than they bargined for in Palin).

Notice, for example, when confronted for their hatred towards women, what do they do? THEY WHINE AND CRY AND RUN TO A HIGHER AUTHORITY SCREECHING “MAKE THEM STOP!”
http://www.thepiratescove.us/ William_Teach

Heh heh. Remember when Bush was still president, and Nancy Pelosi would go running to him when the Republicans in Congress would be mean to the minority party?
StanW

William, I remember when Tom Daschle did the same thing.
baoxian

Kerfuffles like this are the perfect illustration of how we're driven by thought and reason, and they're driven by emotion.

Hawkins said no to Frum because the content of his writing didn't meet the standards of conservative ideology. Facts – decision. Cause and effect.

Now look at what they come back with. First the “do you know who I am?” threat to conform. Then the threat of isolation from the collective. And of course all the while the ridicule…the refuge of faux confidence and pandering to the lowest common denominator.

It's all 100% predictable and laughable because it's right out of the leftist playbook that has been so well defined in different perspectives by Alinsky and Ayn Rand. Isolate, personalize and attack the target. Ridicule. Threats (are more powerful than the action). The self-congratulatory circle jerk of using a popular tactic on a common enemy.

These shopworn hacks can only influence each other because we know better. They were all cowed into conformity by the MSM, afraid for their reputations and careers. Hawkins laughs at them, and that's what pisses them off more than anything.
Greg

> If David Frum was critical of some conservatives only to make money, then he is doing a piss poor job.

For example, his termination from AEI cost him $100,000 a year. Moreover, FrumForum makes no money . . . partly because you block him from advertisements.

If Frum REALLY wanted to make money, he should just mindlessly repeat Republican talking points and make tastless jokes about Michelle Obama, everyday the start a talk radio show, and become a millionaire.

In conclusion, YOUR POINT ABOUT FRUM'S MONEY MOTIVATION MAKES NO SENSE.

> Also, you keep crying about his “threat.” What is this threat? They might publicize your decision to deny them a place in conservative ad money . . .

Wow, that's pretty scary stuff . . . I mean, you ended up publicizing your opinion YOURSELF . . .

> Your point about the MSM considering Frum and Parker, etc. as voices of conservatism is true. There is no getting around their love of dissenter-types. But your criticism mostly seems to be envy.

> I think you need to begin to differentiate between conservative ENTERTAINERS like Ann Coulter, who have never had any substantive role in policy discussions and CONSERVATIVE THINKERS, who devote their career to grappling with actual policy and political strategy with the intention of furthering conservative values.

People like Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh have their niche: they make jokes, mock politicians and generally entertain conservatives. But they contribute nothing of substance to American democratic debate.

Frum, while mostly a pundit and not a policy practicioner, has a real ideas about real issues and has done concrete things to further his ideas.

It's hard to be as entertaining as Limbaugh and Beck when you are thinking about complicated economic and political issues.
mightysamurai

Awww, somebody back up the waaaahmbulance!
TheDickNixon

Wow John, next thing you know, KKKilgore Trout will post here on one of his moby full bore racism rants and then Charles will have a write up pointing out you are a racist, just like they have done to Ace and Hot Air in the past.

And anyone who Andi, CJ, and Media Matters supports is a full blown liberal. Charles despises conservatives, Andi is a drug addled psychotic, and MM is the personal mouthpiece of George Soros.

Nixon applauds you Hawkins for your stand.
TheDickNixon

“Frum, while mostly a pundit and not a policy practicioner, has a real ideas about real issues and has done concrete things to further his ideas.

It's hard to be as entertaining as Limbaugh and Beck when you are thinking about complicated economic and political issues. “

David, don't you have the balls to post here under your own name?
TheDickNixon

Teach, Nixon is sure KKKIlgore is registering here this morning getting ready to spew some of his racist beliefs to allow CJ to indict John as allowing racists to post here, as they did to Ace and Hot AIr.
President Friedman

I think Limbaugh, while entertaining, is in it mostly for the money and not to make America a better place. I think Glenn Beck (who I used to listen to on the radio during the Bush years) has turned into a bit of a kook. I think a lot of conservatives, while absolutely right on most issues, are guilty of being just as outlandish in their view of Obama as liberals were towards Bush. I wish a lot of conservatives would change their tone. I'm lukewarm on Sarah Palin. While I'm not a worshipper of academic pedigree, I do expect a level of intellectual engagement and ideological coherency in the politicians and pundits I follow that could, in some situations, be labeled eltitist. I think Obama is wrong on just about everything, but not in a sinister diabolical “made it all happen on purpose” way. I voted for Bush twice and given the same candidates to choose from I would do so again, but I also think it is only Obama that has saved him from being the worst President since Jimmy Carter (and I include Bubba in that estimation). I think the old axiom that conservatives think liberals are wrong, but liberals think conservatives are evil, has been reverseed since Obama took office. One thing I disagree with Frum about is that I think the Tea Parties have been a great thing, but mainly because they have elevated (not eliminated) the importance and visibility of fiscal conservatism and small government above social conservatism within the conservative movement.

In short, I'm exactly the kind of person David Frum's approach should appeal to, and I can't stand David Frum. Take that for what it's worth.
Mr. EMT

I have been listening to Limbaugh off and on for nearly 20 years.
I have absolutely no problem seeing the sincerity in his beliefs.
He articulates what he believes in so well that over 20 million listeners tune in to the radio and listen.
Beck is pouring enough energy into the things he is saying that show he is going beyond just making a buck as well.

Seriously Fried, if you are trying to say you have the right tone after the crap you said about it being ok for a politician to beat on a college student?
Honestly your ideals confuse me because I would think someone like frum or another self hating “conservative” with liberal views would be up your ally.
Mr. EMT

Well one thing is totally evident from your post.
You have no idea who Ann Coulter is and what she has done which makes her opinions highly valued, nor have you ever listend to a Rush Limbaugh show and do not appear to have ever sat through a Glen Beck show either.
Or is that three things?
Mr. EMT

Dude, i thought he was just a speed bump i didn't mean to run him over.
baoxian

One problem there Greg-o. Guys like Frum don't have the balls to conform to conservative “groupthink”. It means having principles, understanding the ideas behind your words, and being willing to take a lot of heat from the bleating liberal media.

There's a reason strong conservatives make a lot of money while wannabe flameouts lose their $100,000 gigs.
Mr. EMT

You are both correct.
A bully preys on what he perceives as weak for the power trip.
A bully only starts a fight with someone they feel they can win.
A bully will gang up on one person with a mob behind them, but will never stand up to a mob alone.
A bully will always run when challenged because a bully is a boot licking coward.
baoxian

I can only really stand conservative talk radio in small doses any more, and mostly for the news that the MSM won't report.

Rush is too wrapped up in “my guy/your guy” partisan intrigue. Beck goes too far in playing on the emotions of his audience, even if he does cover angles nobody else will. Never could get into Hannity.

I the problem is that there's too much conservative punditry out there and not enough honest journalism. These days I know what I believe in and what I don't, and in the grand scheme of things I could care less if Obama lunches on arugula or when Pelosi's last Botox injection was.

I want facts so I know what's going on and can make decisions. Unfortunately it seems there are fewer and fewer people interested in providing them these days.
StanW

I have only two points to make with what you posted here, Pres.

1) Limbaugh and Beck as pundits, they do political commentary. Many on the Right and Left take them far too seriously. While they may occasionally have periods of brillians and insanity, it is important to remember who they are. We are best to spend our energies railing against politiciansthat have actual power.
2) There is a differnece between the Right's treatment of Obama and the Left's treatment of Bush. Primarily, the Right hammers Obama over his actual words and his actual actions; nothing 'outlandish' about that. The Left hammered Bush mostly based upon lies and things created out of their own paranoia.

Other than that (well, and your opinion that Bush is the worst President except for Carter), I find little to disagree with you.
Voltaire's Ghost

This is the first time I've seen anyone write about Charles Johnson at Little Green Footballs that he, ” hate(s) anything and everything conservative.”

I guess I've been misreading him all this time.
angelgirl011202

Good grief. Stop with the pissing match and let it go. You guys are staring to sounds like a bunch of Democrats up in here!
Son of Bob

Frum and the others are no different than the McCain family…trying desperately to be relevant by attacking conservatives in hopes of being darlings to the liberals. There's nothing libs love more than a so-called Republican or “conservative” that spouts negatives about their own people…these idiots are so weak for lib approval and a shot at relevance that they've committed themselves to that position. They are not conservatives, and they shouldn't be supported by advertising on conservative sites.
mightysamurai

This is the first time I've seen anyone write about Charles Johnson at Little Green Footballs that he, ” hate(s) anything and everything conservative.”

Then where the Hell have you been for the past year or so?
President Friedman

The reason I don't identify with Frum is because, in spite of all the things I listed above, I tend to agree with the Rush, Beck, Coulter et al, on what the desired political outcomes are. I'm not willing to let my aversion to their methods, rhetoric, and personalities effect the integrity of my thinking on those subjects. I think in many instances Frum finds these folks so offensive that he actually would rather be on the wrong side of a policy than to agree with them on what that policy should be. Whatever else I may think about the state of affairs in the conservative movement, I have no use for that kind of thinking.
Tennwriter

President,
Um, you are aware that social conservatives are almost always fiscal cons and small gov't supporters, right? And that fiscons who are not socons tend to be limp fish with little backbone. If you want a fiscon that will FIGHT, you pretty much have to have a socon. If however, you want a fiscon that will say the right words about the budget, and divide the Republicans by smearing the socons in a liberal way, and then at the crunch time will fold like a bedsheet, why get you a pure fiscon. They fold very nicely.

In the end, you gotta ask yourself. Do I dislike big government more than I dislike those evangelicals?

Tennwriter
Proud Infidel

One of the more amusing facts about this is that “phony moderate or centrist pundits” are always insisting that conservatives be less conservative, betray or compromise their principles and move towards the center. Yet the Democrats, who've become effectively a socialist or even a marxist party, as well as their talking heads like Chris “Tingles” Mathews and Keith Oberman, are never told they need to move towards the center. It's always conservatives who must compromise and abandon their radicalism, never liberals.

Sadly, way too many conservatives for my taste fall into the trap of agreeing with these liberals posing as moderates or centrists.
President Friedman

Hey, Tom Coburn is my Senator and I'm a huge fan and contribute to his campaigns. But when it was time to lay the cards down, he folded and voted for TARP just like the other jellyfish. Likewise, you may disagree with Ron Paul (I disagree with him on some issues myself) but he's got plenty of backbone in spite of not being a socon. I don't buy that being a socon gives you more backbone than being libertarian. What it does give you is a more united block of voters, and that's nothing to sneeze at. So yeah, I agree with you that you have to ask yourself that question about disliking big government more than evangelicals (and I loves me plenty of evangelicals), but I don't cosider that to be any kind of protection from me getting screwed by the failing backbone of a politician.
Prairie Boy

Frum is the son of the late Barbara Frum. She was a radio personality for the government funded Canadian Broadcasting Corp. Kinda NPR without the fundraisers but with jobs for life. In the time he spent in Canada I very much doubt he ever met a true Conservative.
http://www.thepiratescove.us/ William_Teach

Huh? Seriously, Voltaire's Ghost? Chuck has been sliding down the road to full blown progressive for several years, starting with his constant posts about “creationism” and his banning of anyone who dares to disagree with him. There is a massive list of The Banned. That is something liberals primarily do, though, I could name one unhinged on the right, Debbie Schlussel. But, most Conservatives allow opposite opinion. Here at RWN, John sure does. I do at my little site, and rarely delete a comment on posts I cross-post here at RWN (I usually will just clean some language now and then.) If people want to beclown themselves with nastiness, I'll kill them with kindness, but, I digress.

Just look at LGF. Go back through several days. All you see is hate conservatives and liberal propaganda. I'm not trying to be harsh, VG, but, Chuck went around the bound years ago.
Tennwriter

I think being a socon gives you a lot more protection, but its obviously not perfect protection from jellyfishing.

As to Ron Paul, I am not aware of all his policies, but most of them seem to be good except for his foreign policy toward Iraq and Israel. I believe that protecting Israel is right for a number of reasons. I have stated, on RWN, I think, that Conservatives ought to seek some sort of deal with the Ronulans. They have energy and tech skills we need.
And isn't Ron Paul against abortion (the true rational libertarian position)?

I've thought a bit about it before, and my tentative theory is that a socon more broadly rejects liberalism than a libertarian. Its not just 'no', but Slam the Door in the Face “NO!” to Liberalism. This offers more protection. A socon lives in a different reality than a liberal.

I also was not aware of this until about a year ago when some guys were talking at the Volokh Conspiracy, and they pointed out that if a Red Dawn event happened the libertarians would most likely be out there with a lawsuit. In other words, metrosexual.

It is true that I've noted that Libertarians are much more likely to kick up a fuss, and if the socons get genuinely ticked to quickly back off. This leads me to my theory that a socon is slow to wrath, but fearsome in his rage, while the tarian is quick to complain, but also quick to backtrack. Thats a kind of flexibility that can get you into trouble in pressure situations. Now, this is part of the package. Tarians have to kick up a fuss often or they would get ignored as teh small group they are. And they also have a strong tendency toward absolutist statements…you're either with me 100% or you're a statist thug! Take these two together, and I suppose a tendency to squish under high pressure is neccessary.

Tennwriter
Eric

“I do not advocate groupthink,” I just won't call somebody a conservative who dares to criticize conservatives. LOL.

By the way, Sarah Palin is too a hick.
Zimriel

Sharmuta left LGF some months ago, almost to the day of that NYT hitpiece (“blog version of Animal Farm”).
Guest

You hit the nail on the head with your second point. Commentators like Coulter, Limbaugh and Palin (to name a few) break through the mass-media filter and get their opinions out because they are incredibly talented and hard-working people. They do not get a free-ride because they are conservative – just the opposite, they have to overcome enormous media bias to get heard at all. There are thousands of conservative writers who just don't make the cut, because the bar for conservatives is much higher and the market is much smaller.

Frum, Parker, Ms. McCain and their ilk know this, and they have responded by whoring themselves out to do what big media has an insatiable appetite for – crapping on conservatives while posing as one themselves. It's a whole lot easier that developing the talent and work-ethic required to get into the exclusive ranks of the very few media star conservatives, and Frum and crew know they don't have it!
RBC217

Elena Kagan is up before the Senate Judiciary Committee asking to be confirmed to the Supreme Court. Millions of gallons of oil are still pumping in the Gulf of Mexico. Economies are stuttering all over the world and the G-8 and G-20 leaders are apparently at a loss to figure out what to do about it. Desparately needed financial reform is hung up in the Senate. The 2010 elections are coming up.

But what earns John Hawkins longest post,and what subject gets the most comments? A petty squabble among bloggers about who is really a conservative and who isn't, as though “conservative” has one and only one definition. You can find more maturity and reasonableness on the average grade school play ground.

There is room enough in the political debate arena for John Hawkins and David Frum, for Michella Malkin and Kathleen Parker, for Ann Coulter and, David Brooks, and even for windbags like Rush Limbaugh and silly ninnies like Glen Beck and there is no way to stop any of them from saying what they think.

Whining about it is silly and a waste of time.
http://twitter.com/caraellison Cara Ellison

Great comeback, John! Faux conservatives are the bane of the conservative movement. It is nice to see you flushing them out.
http://twitter.com/RightKlik RightKlik

On point #2, there's a big difference between making an honest living and whoring yourself out intellectually. I'm surprised Frum doesn't understand that.
http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/WEFKIJ5X6U7PREK25G4IZKKZKE lorien1973

Seems like the easy solution is to create a new group on blogads called “moderates who pretend to be conservatives, but bash them instead” and let Frum and the other join. Truth in advertising, I guess.
Steven Martinovich

Well said.
gekkobear

So will you call yourself a crocodile? I mean calling yourself a human is being group-centric… you're a crocodile, right?

You seem to mistake “groupthink” with “words actually have a meaning”.

If you have 2 arms, 2 legs, no tail, and are warm-blooded I will not call you a crocodile… because I know what that word means.

If you promote more liberal society, more government, government sponsored healthcare, and oppose taking a stand for conservative issues in favor of giving 90% to get 10% of what you want; I'm not going to call you a conservative.

Unless we're planning on words not having meanings and any words only have the meaning of the speaker. then I guess I might.. but you're stilkl wrong… why?

Wibble-dibble wooble gloop-glyph kanzundramalphis.

Which clearly proves you're wrong. If you disagree please show clearly where in that last statement I have erred in logic. I think the gloop-glyph clearly shows my point.
712cbr

RBC217 -

If clarifying true conservatism and conservatives is such a waste of time why did you bother to post? Does frumforum pay you by the word to post here?
TR Sterling

Unfortunately, Frum and Sullivan live in a narcissistic defended cocoon. Arguing with people like that is impossible because they have no integrity of thought or character. Your points are all nicely made and you will need to resay them all because talking to DF and AS is the same as talking to a 'rubber boot'.
huckupchuck

Wow. This is a fascinating thread. It always intrigues me to observe such discussions. The one thing that I wish would crop up more in the discussion is how people actually define conservatism. It seems to me in this case that what disqualifies Frum from the conservative club is that he sometimes harshly criticizes conservatives. I hear very little about the content of his criticism and any of Frum's other ideas in terms of where they fit on the spectrum of conservative ideology. On the question of US-Israeli relations, or on the subject of the Iraq/Afghanistan war, or on the question of limited government, Frum is very much a conservative. I just have to wonder what it is in terms of Frum's ideas (not how he treats others in the conservative fold) that disqualifies him from being conservative. A lot is made of sticking to conservative principles and many here claim Frum has deviated or sold out such principles. But what I want to know is how? Because I just don't see it. I'm a liberal and I have to say that Frum and I share almost nothing in terms of ideology, policy prescriptions, or political principles. The only thing we share is that we both criticize aspects of the rightwing; but I'm telling you that this doesn't mean Frum and I are policy buddies. Far from it. If I were any kind of policy-maker, I wouldn't let him into the room.
BillStevens54

Epistemic Closure

Exhibit A
Mr. EMT

Fail
All you had that crap you typed you may as well have just left it with,
“Blah blah blah.”
http://twitter.com/DaSaintFan Mark Stone

Your only issue I can see Fried with your post… is in your first line:

I think Limbaugh, while entertaining, is in it mostly for the money and not to make America a better place.

Why do the two have to be exclusive? Why can't he be both. Do I agree with him all the time? Nope… but honestly, i don't believe you can be an entertainer if you don't believe in what you're saying. That's just way too many hours in the day where you'd be caught in a lie (not a mis-statement but an out and out lie) somewhere.

Do I agree with everything he, Beck, Coulter, Hannity, etc. say? Nope.. heck, we've all been known to disagree with John right here on his own blog and we let him know when we think he's wrong.

And as Stan wrote… look at how we criticize Obama's actions and inactions and his comments.. we don't go after him in the personal matters that the left did when they went after Bush/Cheney.
http://www.mindcancer.com Fritz Katz

Here's the letter I just wrote to Blogads:
—–
You really should reconsider the classification of LittleGreenFootballs as part of the 'Conservative Hive'. In the past two years, LGF has changed from being on the conservative side to becomming a far-left hate site. It's a total waste of money for any advertiser who's trying to targetconservatives. Please contact me for more information. To verify, go to LGF, right column, (between Featured and Recent Pages) click on “LGF Standard Ads”, takes you to Blogads, upper right corner you'll see this message:

http://web.blogads.com/adspotgroups/mininetwork…

“Click here to check out all of the blogs in the Conservative Blog Advertising Hive hive!”

Thanks for your consideration,
– Fritz Katz.
Anonymous

Oh! Did your mother christen you “TheDickNixon” ?
gvanderleun

This has to be the best and most concise summation of the Charles Johnson's very limited writing abilities ever keyboarded: “and wrote a single negative, rambling sentence about it.”
Big Al

I think this is fairly clear. He should have no trouble understanding the whats and whys this time…
One should always be who they say they are.
http://twitter.com/JadedByPolitics JadedByPolitics

Frum is NOT a Conservative!!! if perhaps WE ALL say it he will get it…..nah he is too dumb for that!