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Paul Krugman Liberals Vs. Sanity On Spending
Written By : John Hawkins

The man who may be the most famous liberal columnist in America, the New York Times’ Paul Krugman, is an advocate of completely unrestrained spending. His attitude, which seems to be shared by the Democratic leadership in D.C., is that America can spend an unlimited amount of money with no serious consequences, that we should do so in order to pump up the economy, and then at some undefined later point, somebody else will have to restrain spending. Incidentally, this was not Paul Krugman’s attitude early on in the Bush Administration. The Paul Krugman from back then sounded a great deal more concerned about fiscal conservatism than the Paul Krugman of today does.

Setting aside the fact that the evidence government spending can drive economic growth in this country is sparse indeed — and that the debt crisis in Europe that’s already hitting Greece and could easily hit us in a few years — at what point do we say we simply admit that we don’t have the money to pursue this liberal economic pipedream any more? Put another way, America has spent far too much, for far too long, and because of that, even if Krugman’s desire to borrow and spend our way to prosperity worked (which it doesn’t), we’re so deep in the red that the cure would be worse than the disease.

Incidentally, lest you think, “Borrow and spend our way to prosperity” isn’t a fair representation of Krugman’s liberal position, here are some of his quotations on the subject:

It’s politically fashionable to rant against government spending and demand fiscal responsibility. But right now, increased government spending is just what the doctor ordered, and concerns about the budget deficit should be put on hold. — Paul Krugman

How much money can the government actually spend in rescuing the economy? The answer is a lot. It’s not unlimited. A trillion here, a trillion there and soon you’re talking about real money. Vast countries with stable governments, which is us, can borrow up to 100 percent, more than that of GDP, and you work that out – we probably have $10 trillion of running room if we have to use it. I don’t want to get there, but uh, we’ve got a long ways to go. — Paul Krugman

But what about all that debt we’re incurring? That’s a bad thing, but it’s important to have some perspective. Economists normally assess the sustainability of debt by looking at the ratio of debt to G.D.P. And while $9 trillion is a huge sum, we also have a huge economy, which means that things aren’t as scary as you might think.

…Now, this assumes that the U.S. government’s credit will remain good so that it’s able to borrow at relatively low interest rates. So far, that’s still true. Despite the prospect of big deficits, the government is able to borrow money long term at an interest rate of less than 3.5 percent, which is low by historical standards. People making bets with real money don’t seem to be worried about U.S. solvency.

The numbers tell you why. According to the White House projections, by 2019, net federal debt will be around 70 percent of G.D.P. That’s not good, but it’s within a range that has historically proved manageable for advanced countries, even those with relatively weak governments. In the early 1990s, Belgium — which is deeply divided along linguistic lines — had a net debt of 118 percent of G.D.P., while Italy — which is, well, Italy — had a net debt of 114 percent of G.D.P. Neither faced a financial crisis.

So is there anything to worry about? Yes, but the dangers are political, not economic. — Paul Krugman

Shorter Krugman: Obama should borrow all he can, spend all he can, and it’ll all work out for the best.

Yet, it’s worth asking: What makes Paul Krugman believe Congress can control spending? Other than a brief respite during the Clinton years, when Republicans in Congress clamped down and forced a balanced budget, Congress has done a very poor job of living within its means — and keep in mind, we’re no longer just talking about balancing the budget, we’re talking about paying off our massive debt.

It’s fair to note that the Republican Party did a poor job of controlling spending under Bush and is only interested in it now because the Tea Party is twisting their arms. Of course, it’s also just as fair to note that Democrats, even Blue Dog Democrats, have been consistently hostile to spending cuts in every area outside of national defense. That’s why we have a 13 trillion dollardebt — because our government doesn’t have the ability to control its spending. Assuming that they’ll magically be able to do so is like planning that an alcoholic who’s so far gone he’s licking beer out of ashtrays will be stone cold sober when you need him to drive you home. Heck, Barack Obama even admits that he’s planning on running huge deficits for as far as the eye can see; so how can anyone believe we’re going to get spending under control any time soon?

But, what are we hearing about our current level of spending? That it’s unsustainable:

Under current law, the federal budget is on an unsustainable path, because federal debt will continue to grow much faster than the economy over the long run. — CBO Director Doug Elmendorf

An urgency to rein in budget deficits seems to be gaining some traction among American lawmakers. If so, it is none too soon. Perceptions of a large U.S. borrowing capacity are misleading.

…The current federal debt explosion is being driven by an inability to stem new spending initiatives. Having appropriated hundreds of billions of dollars on new programs in the last year and a half, it is very difficult for Congress to deny an additional one or two billion dollars for programs that significant constituencies perceive as urgent. The federal government is currently saddled with commitments for the next three decades that it will be unable to meet in real terms. This is not new. For at least a quarter century analysts have been aware of the pending surge in baby boomer retirees.

We cannot grow out of these fiscal pressures. The modest-sized post-baby-boom labor force, if history is any guide, will not be able to consistently increase output per hour by more than 3% annually. The product of a slowly growing labor force and limited productivity growth will not provide the real resources necessary to meet existing commitments. (We must avoid persistent borrowing from abroad. We cannot count on foreigners to finance our current account deficit indefinitely.)

…Fortunately, the very severity of the pending crisis and growing analogies to Greece set the stage for a serious response. That response needs to recognize that the range of error of long-term U.S. budget forecasts (especially of Medicare) is, in historic perspective, exceptionally wide. Our economy cannot afford a major mistake in underestimating the corrosive momentum of this fiscal crisis. Our policy focus must therefore err significantly on the side of restraint. — Alan Greenspan

The Fed chief made his most urgent call yet to get the nation’s fiscal house in order. His plea came in prepared remarks to the first meeting of President Barack Obama’s commission to tackle the soaring deficit.

“The path forward contains many difficult trade-offs and choices, but postponing those choices and failing to put the nation’s finances on a sustainable long-run trajectory would ultimately do great damage to our economy,” Bernanke said.

…Bernanke also warned that policymakers shouldn’t think that growing the economy – and thus tax revenues – will remedy the situation. “Unfortunately, we cannot grow our way out of this problem,” Bernanke said. “No credible forecast suggests that future rates of growth of the U.S. economy will be sufficient to close these deficits without significant changes to our fiscal policies.”

Bernanke said the federal budget currently appears set to stay on an “unsustainable path.” Hard choices must be made by policymakers sooner, rather than later, to fix this, the Fed chief said.

“No laws are more basic than the laws of arithmetic. For fiscal sustainability, whatever level of spending is chosen, revenues must be sufficient to sustain that spending in the long run,” Bernanke said. — Ben Bernanke

Folks, this country has been spending more money than it can afford for a long, long time and since Obama’s gotten into office, the government has become even more utterly reckless with our tax dollars. As bad as that is, if people like Paul Krugman have their way, the government will engage in a level of spending so extravagant it would make a pimp look like a Sunday school teacher. How can we, in good conscience, run up spending today that American citizens will still be trying to pay for generations from now? It’s not only bad fiscal policy; it’s immoral to sell future generations of Americans into debt slavery that way.

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  • baoxian

    Why Krugman's thinking is perfectly sound. The last time countries tried spending their way out of an economic downturn only led to the Great Depression and WWII. That wasn't so bad, right?

    Adam Smith got right in 1776 what Krugman still fails at today. The Wealth of Nations is created not by legislation, government-enforced redistribution, or even the coinage of the money itself, but instead by labor that produces a good or service of value to others.

    Krugman's blathering about debt-to-GDP ratio is as meaningful as measuring the rope you would use to hang yourself. No person or country can borrow their way out of debt. Krugman here sounds as pathetic as the guy who has discovered he can pay off one credit card with another. Sure you get to tear up the bill…only a bigger one is coming next month.

    It's all about J-O-B-S. Productive labor that actually creates wealth. What group would you rather be a part of? One group of 5 unemployed guys sitting around their living rooms passing millions of dollars of monopoly money back and forth, or a group with a doctor, farmer, mechanic, carpenter, and accountant exchanging their services?

    • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/C3IKAXMRVZNEU5BZKUD7LK6WBA Pete Moss

      Today corporate America is sitting on huge cash reserves, waiting for the economy to turn around, while the unemployment rate is at record levels.

      Therefore, where are those jobs going to come from?

      • baoxian

        Many problems with that Petey:

        1. A lot of that corporate cash is Porkulus and bailout money. It doesn't represent revenue and won't be coming back after it's spent.

        2. Large corporations only account for about half of all jobs, and a minority (20-30%) of all job growth. The bulk of job growth is created by small business, which right now is getting killed by taxes, Obamacare, and the dart-board approach of government intervention.

        3. Uncertainty is killing all sectors of the economy. People can't make decisions when they don't know what the government is going to do next.

        The jobs will get created the same way they always do, when entrepreneurs and corporate managers can be confident in the costs and revenue increases that expanding their business would create. Liberals don't understand that because they're not the ones that make those choices.

        • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/C3IKAXMRVZNEU5BZKUD7LK6WBA Pete Moss

          Yes, your chicken will hatch without an egg, too.

          • http://conservativebootcamp.com Martin Hale

            Snappy comeback there Champ, but how does it refute a single word Baox said? Just curious.

        • DrEvil

          Right on the money, especially point 3. Businesses can't know what decisions to make and what actions to take because they can't make a reasonable estimate of the results. Nothing is guaranteed, but in a stable environment businesses can plan with reasonable expectations of success. Right now, nobody knows what hare-brained job-killing, economy squeezing idiocy the leftists in Government are going to come up with next.

          Have an Evil day

      • UFKA_Smithwick

        A lot of that is being held in reserve because no one knows what old Barry is going to do next. He's created such a sense of economic anarchy that companies are afraid to do anything.

        Corporations don't like to sit on money and not hire people/produce things. That's a sure way to slowly die out. But in the environment Barack has created spending money seems a likely way to quickly die off, so they're waiting.

      • TheDickNixon

        Maybe if the Obamateur Administration was responsible and pro business those companies would spend this money. In this environment, Nixon wouldn't spend a dime until after the november election.

      • Christopher_Taylor

        Once American businesses can be confident that the Democrats are going to stop ramming American economy into the grave and they know what the taxes and their financial burden from the Government Health Insurance Takeover Act is going to be, they'll be less afraid of investing and hiring. Basically the Obama administration and the Democrats in congress have created such a hostile environment for business that they're mostly on “wait and see” mode.

        • Pork_Soda

          Seriously what's the business landscape gonna look like in 6 months, let alone in six years? If I was sittin' on a big ol' pile of govt supplied cash, I wouldn't be in an investing mood right now anyway. I've seen no indication that the govt powers that be are going be anything but a hindrance to any developing biz climate.

      • Awfulorv

        Hear, Hear…

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/C3IKAXMRVZNEU5BZKUD7LK6WBA Pete Moss

    John the professional blogger (meaning, unemployable) like to think he knows more than an MIT professor. You're funny, John.

    Here's a good analysis of the the republican economic strategy:

    —–
    Stockman: How the GOP Destroyed the U.S. Economy

    By Barry Ritholtz – August 1st, 2010, 9:45AM

    Over the years, I have described myself politically as a “Jacob Javits* Republican.” For those of you unfamiliar with the Senator from NY, Javits was a social progressive, a fiscal conservative, “a political descendant of Theodore Roosevelt’s Progressive Republicanism.”

    After he “retired” in 1980, the GOP took a very different turn: The emphasis on Fiscal conservatism was lost. Balanced budgets were no longer a priority. In terms of electoral politics, the embrace with the Religious Right was a deal with the devil. It married the party to a backwards combination of social regressiveness and magical thinking. Ideology trumped facts, and conflicting data and science was ignored.

    In short, the party became more focused on Politics than Policy.

    I bring this up as an intro to David Stockman’s brutal critique of Republican fiscal policy. Stockman was the director of the Office of Management and Budget under President Ronald Reagan. His NYT OpEd — subhed: How the GOP Destroyed the US economy — perfectly summarizes the most legitimate critiques of decades of GOP economic policy.

    I can sum it up thusly: Whereas the Democrats have no economic policy, the Republicans have a very bad one.

    The details are what makes Stockman’s take so astonishing. Here are his most important observations, of which I find little to disagree with:

    • The total US debt, including states and municipalities, will soon reach $18 trillion dollars. That is a Greece-like 120% of GDP.

    • Supply Side tax cuts for the wealthy are based on “money printing and deficit finance — vulgar Keynesiansism robed in the ideological vestments of the prosperous classes.”

    • Republicans abandoned the belief that prosperity depended upon the regular balancing of accounts — government, trade, central banks private households and businesses.

    • Once fiscal conservatism was abandoned, it led to the serial financial bubbles and Wall Street depredations that have crippled our economy.

    • The Nixon administration defaulted on American obligations under the 1944 Bretton Woods agreement.

    • Who is to blame? Milton Friedman. In 1971, he persuaded President Nixon to unleash on the world paper dollars no longer redeemable in gold.

    • According to Friedman, “The free market set currency exchange rates, he said, and trade deficits will self-correct.” What actually occurred was “impossible.” Stockman calls it “Friedman’s $8 trillion error.”

    • Ideological tax-cutters are what killed the Republicans’ fiscal religion.

    • America’s debt explosion has resulted from the Republican Party’s embrace, three decades ago, of the insidious Supply Side doctrine that deficits don’t matter if they result from tax cuts.

    • The GOP controlled Congress from 1994 to 2006: Combine neocon warfare spending with entitlements, farm subsidies, education, water projects and you end up with a GOP welfare/warfare state driving the federal spending machine.

    • It was Paul Volcker who crushed inflation and enabled a solid economic rebound — not the Reagan Supply Side Tax cuts.• Republicans believed the “delusion that the economy will outgrow the deficit if plied with enough tax cuts.”

    • Over George W. Bush 8 years in office, non-defense appropriations gained 65%.• Fiscal year 2009 (GWB last budget): Tax-cutters reduced federal revenues to 15% of GDP — lower than they had been since the 1940s.

    • The expansion of our financial sector has been vast and unproductive. Stockman blames (tho but not by name): 1) Greenspan, for flooding financial markets with freely printed money; and 2) Phil Gramm, for removing traditional restrictions on leverage and speculation.

    • The shadow banking system grew from a mere $500 billion in 1970 to $30 trillion by September 2008 (see Gramm, above).

    • Trillion-dollar financial conglomerates are not free enterprises — they are wards of the state, living on virtually free money from the Fed’s discount window to cover their bad bets.

    • From 2002 to 2006, the top 1% of Americans received two-thirds of the gain in national income.


    I find it fascinating that the most incisive criticism of the irresponsible GOP policies has comes from two of its former stars: Bruce Barlett and now David Stockman. Sure, Krugman, Stiglitz, DeLong and others have railed against Bush policies for years. But it seems to take an insider’s critique to really give the debate some punch.

    Its funny, but when I criticize Bush, I get accused of being a liberal Democrat (I am not). I am simply giving my honest perspective of an utterly ruinous set of irresponsible policies that did lasting damage to America. The critiques of Obama does not generate the same sort of reaction. I suspect brain damaged partisans of the left suffer from somewhat different cognitive deficits than brain damaged partisans of the right.

    Here’s to hoping that reality-based economic policies are somewhere in our future.

    —-

    I defer to the experts, John pulls his beliefs from his ass.

    • http://www.patriotpost.com bthewolf

      You defer to the liberals who support your assinine ideas, not to the experts who took real numbers, and get a different and realistic view of the facts.

    • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/ELCWV5ANDUEJ5D5PB35FL2LZ6Y Bildo

      Your so-called expert must have gone to the Daily Kos School of Economics and Communist Policy. I can tell you that he's no economist, he at best a propagandist. More likely he's just an idiot like yourself.

      “• The total US debt, including states and municipalities, will soon reach $18 trillion dollars. That is a Greece-like 120% of GDP.”

      Of the $7,340 billion in general debt that the US government has accumulated since 1981, when Reagan took office, $5,886 billion has been while Democrats have controlled both houses of Congress. Roughly 80%. I attributed any split Congress’ to the Republicans.

      “• Supply Side tax cuts for the wealthy are based on “money printing and deficit finance — vulgar Keynesiansism robed in the ideological vestments of the prosperous classes.””

      Not true at all. Supply side tax cuts are targeted to shift the supply curve, and thereby stimulating the economy and increasing tax revenue. They have accomplished this every single time they’ve been enacted. They are not based on “money printing and deficit finance.” That is a result of increased Congressional spending that should never have occurred.

      “• Republicans abandoned the belief that prosperity depended upon the regular balancing of accounts — government, trade, central banks private households and businesses.”

      Yes, they did in the nineties, but Conservatives haven’t, thus the Tea Party movement.

      “• Once fiscal conservatism was abandoned, it led to the serial financial bubbles and Wall Street depredations that have crippled our economy.”

      Those bubbles, including the dotcom bubble, were driven by far more than governmental fiscal discipline. They were both driven primarily by a massive influx of private capital, not governmental, and a peak economic demand due to Baby Boomers entering their highest consumption years.
      Those bubbles also led to the greatest economic boom in world history, and the greatest accumulation of wealth by the middle class in world history.

      “• The Nixon administration defaulted on American obligations under the 1944 Bretton Woods agreement.”

      Converting to a floating system based on market demand was far better than basing entire economies on the price and availability of gold.

      “• Who is to blame? Milton Friedman. In 1971, he persuaded President Nixon to unleash on the world paper dollars no longer redeemable in gold.”

      Ummmm, the point is???

      “• According to Friedman, “The free market set currency exchange rates, he said, and trade deficits will self-correct.” What actually occurred was “impossible.” Stockman calls it “Friedman’s $8 trillion error.””

      He has failed to link a cause and effect. In economic terms this is known as the “fallacy of composition,” in that just because two things happen, it doesn’t mean they are inter-related. Allowing freefloating exchange rates did not force Congress to overspend. Shitty liberal politicians, and a gutless 1930's Supreme Court led us to where we are.

      “• Ideological tax-cutters are what killed the Republicans’ fiscal religion.”

      Free spending socialists, and corrupt politicians who felt that earmarks were required to get re-elected, are what have bankrupted the Republic, not the tax-cutters. As I showed above, it was the democrats, and their infinite increase in the size of the State, that cause the massive debt, not Conservatives.

      “• America’s debt explosion has resulted from the Republican Party’s embrace, three decades ago, of the insidious Supply Side doctrine that deficits don’t matter if they result from tax cuts.”

      Bullshit. The tax cuts enacted from 2001 to 2003 led to an increase in tax revenues of 44% by 2007, more than at any time in history. It was the increase in spending that outpaced the tax revenues that has led to problems.

      “• The GOP controlled Congress from 1994 to 2006: Combine neocon warfare spending with entitlements, farm subsidies, education, water projects and you end up with a GOP welfare/warfare state driving the federal spending machine.”

      Yes, it was spending that got us here, not tax cuts.

      “• It was Paul Volcker who crushed inflation and enabled a solid economic rebound — not the Reagan Supply Side Tax cuts.”

      This is a blatant lie that the only the least economically educated could possibly believe. As we are seeing right now, monetary policy doesn’t have nearly the influence that he is claiming it does.

      “• Republicans believed the “delusion that the economy will outgrow the deficit if plied with enough tax cuts.””

      The fiscal discipline of the late nineties proved this to be the truth, not a delusion. This delusional idea has worked every single time it's been enacted.

      “• Over George W. Bush 8 years in office, non-defense appropriations gained 65%.

      As I said above, tax revenues increased by 44%, yet by his own admission spending increased by 65%. He’s only proving Conservatives correct. It was spending, not tax cuts.

      “• Fiscal year 2009 (GWB last budget): Tax-cutters reduced federal revenues to 15% of GDP — lower than they had been since the 1940s.”

      His choice of the very worst year of the recession simply proves he's not even trying to tell the truth.

      The increases in tax revenues during the Bush years, while becoming a smaller percentage of GDP, is a good thing. It shows that the economy was growing far faster after the cuts than before. The reverse, where tax revenues are declining, while becoming a larger percentage of the overall economy would be like, well, like now… (also see the 2nd worst President in the last 100 years, Jimmy Carter).

      “• The expansion of our financial sector has been vast and unproductive. Stockman blames (tho but not by name): 1) Greenspan, for flooding financial markets with freely printed money; and 2) Phil Gramm, for removing traditional restrictions on leverage and speculation.”

      A doubling of our GDP is unproductive? What a moron.

      “• The shadow banking system grew from a mere $500 billion in 1970 to $30 trillion by September 2008 (see Gramm, above).”

      What he’s calling the very spooky named “shadow banking” is known to the rest of the world as private equity. The government has absolutely no right to regulate what people do with their own savings.

      “• Trillion-dollar financial conglomerates are not free enterprises — they are wards of the state, living on virtually free money from the Fed’s discount window to cover their bad bets.”

      They are wards of the state because the state made the decision to make them so. The financial overhaul makes them even more so, and it seems to be exactly what he’s advocating here.

      “• From 2002 to 2006, the top 1% of Americans received two-thirds of the gain in national income.”

      Considering the percentage of the wealth that they control, that’s low. It shows that the lower and middle incomes received a much higher percentage of the gain than would be expected. Good job Capitalism!!!

      • TheDickNixon

        Quite possibly the best post Nixon has ever read in the threads on RightWingNews.

        Full fucking applause.

        Petey, does the word P3WNED mean anything to you?

        • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/C3IKAXMRVZNEU5BZKUD7LK6WBA Pete Moss

          Small, frail one, does the phrase “stopped reading such blather after the first paragraph” mean anything to you?

          • StanW

            It means you're slow, Pete. Most on this board stop reading when they see it is you posting.

            If you have an issue with Mr. Nixon's posts, THEN STOP READING THEM!

          • sabiticus

            It means you're a mindless cockstain who didn't even have the will to defend the article you copied and pasted (probably without even understanding it in the first place). Bildo completely and utterly made you his bitch on a point by point basis, and you're response was typically pathetic.

            Based on your copy and paste attempt at an argument and your response to Nixon, I have this to say: You. Are. A. Bitch.

          • Christopher_Taylor

            It means you're a wretched child who won't even make the slightest attempt to learn.

          • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/C3IKAXMRVZNEU5BZKUD7LK6WBA Pete Moss

            Read the first paragraph. Treat me with a modicum of respect, and I will do the same for you, as I try to do. You have to remember, though, that this is a pile-on here. I'm under no obligation to read posts I consider overly hostile, or overly verbose, or poorly written. That post qualifies under all three “don't have to read” conditions.

          • http://www.patriotpost.com bthewolf

            Bullshit, there was nothing hostile, verbose, or poorly written about Bildo's post, you're jsut too stupid to provide valid counter argument.

            And you are one to talk about any of those because 90% of your posts cover 2 of those 3 points, most aren't verbose. But you are openly hostile and poorly written on regular basis.

          • TheDickNixon

            Sure thing fry cook. Waiting on those tax returns.

          • Pork_Soda

            Ask him what he W2'd…

          • Christopher_Taylor

            I treat you with every bit of respect you deserve, child. If you post a gargantuan cut and paste copyright violation then you have absolutely no basis upon which to complain about other peoples' posts being too big.

          • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/ELCWV5ANDUEJ5D5PB35FL2LZ6Y Bildo

            When have you ever treated anyone on this site with respect?

            Could it be in this thread when you stated:

            “Corporate america loves the stupidity of the right.”

            or

            “You are so owned by corporate America, RWN folk, that it's sad.”

            Yeah, you're a model of civil discourse.

            And you're still an idiot, especially on matters of economics and finance.

          • http://www.patriotpost.com bthewolf

            Does the prhase,' I have nothing to counters Bildo's facts', mean anything to you, moonbat?

      • Mahatma

        Are you a shadow banker Dildo? Just sayin'

        • Jim

          WOW you really told him

          /sarc

        • http://www.patriotpost.com bthewolf

          Are you an intellectual giant? Just sayin'.

        • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/ELCWV5ANDUEJ5D5PB35FL2LZ6Y Bildo

          Only with your sister.

    • http://conservativebootcamp.com Martin Hale

      Ho-hum. More stolen ideas from Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V Man. Get back to us when you have something original to say.

    • Christopher_Taylor

      Yet another copypasta copyright violation from the troll. Will the moderators ever take action?

      • Trench_Raider

        Of course not.
        They don't even bother deleting the most overt and obcene troll posts any more. This is made even more frustrating because after the change to Disqus they were actually on the ball for a couple of weeks and did a good job of policing the forum.
        Hawkins, you might as well just remove the “flag” button if you guys are not going to act upon it. Right now it's like immigration law: it's in place but it's not enforced, so it's worse than meaningless. In fact I would contend the refusal to act against the trolls and the crap they post is a slap in the face of every legitimate, well behaved, and rule abiding member of this forum.

        TR

        • Christopher_Taylor

          As I write for a (very small) living, the idea of someone on here simply stealing and posting entire articles is especially frustrating. I wonder if John would like people doing that to him?

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/C3IKAXMRVZNEU5BZKUD7LK6WBA Pete Moss

    Republicons complain about debt while they reward the rich with tax breaks.

    Democrats understand that the debt will be relieved in a prosperous economy (as what happened while Clinton was prez), so rather than waiting for a trickle to improve the situation, they inject money directly into the economy with extended unemployment benefits.

    Ultimately, the question is, who deserves help, the rich who are sitting on their asses, or the poor who are struggling to survive.

    • StanW

      Republicons complain about debt while they reward the rich with tax breaks.

      You never seem to tire of telling this lie, Petey. The Bush taxcuts were for ALL TAXPAYERS!

      • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/C3IKAXMRVZNEU5BZKUD7LK6WBA Pete Moss

        “In 2001 a Republican-dominated Congress, led by President Bush passed what has become known Bush tax cuts. The cuts were controversial at the time since most of the benefit went to the those making over $250,000 per year. In order to gain the votes they need to pass the measure, Republicans had to set the tax cuts to expire ten years later.”

        MOST OF THE BENEFIT WENT TO THOSE MAKING OVER $250K/YEAR. This is called rewarding the rich with tax breaks.

        • StanW

          most of the benefit went to the those making over $250,000 per year…because they paid more in taxes, you simpleton. You pay more in taxes, a tax cut affects you more, JUST LIKE A TAX INCREASE DOES.

          The child tax credit sends most of the benefit to people WITH CHILDREN! Learn some simple logic, Petey. It will help you out in your paper delivery job.

          • http://www.patriotpost.com bthewolf

            He's not smart enough to deliver papers Stan, that requires being able to read street names and house numbers, Ole cut and paste, just had his mommy subscribe him to leftist rags and DU, from there he just cuts and pastes.

          • Mahatma

            Well there's an intelligent statement.

          • http://www.patriotpost.com bthewolf

            Says asshatma the king of intellctual giants and witty comebacks.

          • Vegeta1

            It's not really his fault though. ever since mickey ds put pictures in place of numbers on his register, his math skills have went to hell.

          • Mediumheadboy

            Ah, but that would require thought, and Jack Off prefers to have others do that for him.

          • StanW

            THOUGHT? I'd be happy if he'd just do a little MATH!

          • DrEvil

            So, you're saying that those who actually pay income taxes benefited from those reductions in tax rates. I'm shocked, shocked I say. Just because approximately 40% of all tax filers have a zero or even a negative income tax liability is no reason that they can't get bigger tax breaks. Wait, that's exactly what it means.

            Pete Moss is amazing in his misunderstanding of how the world works.

            Have an Evil day

          • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/C3IKAXMRVZNEU5BZKUD7LK6WBA Pete Moss

            The greatest break was given to the top earners, who will now pay what they used to pay, before republicanism ruined the economy with tax breaks to the wealthy.

          • TheDickNixon

            The economy was doing fine til January 2007. Ooops, History is a bitch.

          • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/C3IKAXMRVZNEU5BZKUD7LK6WBA Pete Moss

            They paid the most in tax dollars because they are the TOP EARNERS, Sherlock.

          • TheDickNixon

            So we should penalize the people who work. Good idea, thankfully you operate nothing more dangerous than a french fry machine.

        • Christopher_Taylor

          What about that argues that the tax cuts were not for everyone – including people who pay no taxes? Nothing, just another example of your pathetic, infantile envy.

      • Christopher_Taylor

        That, and debt results from overspending, not tax cuts. Under President Bush, the debt started to come down… until TARP, Stimulus, and the rest of the Democrat spend-fest jacked the debt up to 41 cents on every dollar.

        Spending. Not lower taxes.

        • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/C3IKAXMRVZNEU5BZKUD7LK6WBA Pete Moss

          Yes, let's cut the defense department by 1/3.

          • http://www.patriotpost.com bthewolf

            That spending is Constitutional and less than 17% of the budget while social welfare programs and their adminstration account for over 55% of the budget and have no Constitutional mandate.

          • Christopher_Taylor

            Lets cut all government by a third. There's got to be plenty of waste everywhere, wouldn't you agree? I'm willing to gut the military budget if we cut everything else at least as much.

    • http://www.patriotpost.com bthewolf

      We also have the brains to understand nothing can reduce debt if spending isn't cut, something neither Bush nor Obama understand, But Gringrich did, and in '94 he forced Clintoon to cut spending, it sparked growth, so did Bushes tax cuts, but then he and congress, Dems had the majority for the last 4 years there, spent and spent and spent. Something Friedman never advised, to Nixon or anyone else.

      • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/C3IKAXMRVZNEU5BZKUD7LK6WBA Pete Moss

        Yeah yeah. But no one likes what you propose to cut, and there's no reason to cut it, except you prefer rich people be even richer.

        • http://www.patriotpost.com bthewolf

          No ONE, no one? That's a pretty broad generalization.

          And there is plenty of reason to cut it. it's called fiscal responsibility and I, no where near rich, want to keep more of my money. Not too mention that too many programs that our tax dollars pay for aren't even Constitutional.

          And your attempts at class warfare just inane.

        • TheDickNixon

          Still no tax returns, and still no personal responsibility.

    • UFKA_Smithwick

      “they inject money directly into the economy with extended unemployment benefits. “

      That money they are injecting in to the economy is coming directly from the economy.

      Let's say your doctor said you needed a transfusion because you are running dangerously low on blood. His plan was to run an IV from your left arm to your right to give you a much needed injection of blood. And on top of this the whole setup leaks badly so you lose about a quarter of all the blood taken out.

      You would hail him as a genius who saved your life right?

    • UFKA_Smithwick

      “Ultimately, the question is, who deserves help, the rich who are sitting on their asses, or the poor who are struggling to survive. “

      I agree, let's confiscate the wealth of all politicians who are making more than average and redistribute that to the people.

    • TheDickNixon

      What about those Clinton era tax breaks petey? Still no tax returns and still no mention of personal responsibility. Weak petey, weak.

    • Baserunr

      Dude,

      WHO's money is it anyway?! It belongs to those that earn it, not those that would seize it for redistribution to others. Reward the rich with tax breaks…what percentage of the population pays NO taxes? 47%!

  • Norseman

    This Petey is a piece of work. Living proof that the liberal run education system has failed miserably. I would recommend reading this piece by Uncle Ted.

    http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=38341

    This particular statement brings Petey to mind.

    “It is a fundamental economic principle that if you want less of something, tax it. Only an uneducated idiot with no practical private-sector experience or an avowed Marxist does not understand this. So which is it?”

  • Christopher_Taylor

    Krugman was one of the loudest voices of complaint about the deficits and debt under President Bush. Now he's all for 'em. He's the worst kind of liar; the deliberate propagandist.

    • StanW

      He's a flaming hypocrite as well. Remember how he slammed the Bush Administration early and often about ENRON, while 'forgetting' to divulge his consulting relationship with ENRON?

      Krugman is NOT to be taken seriously on any subject!

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/C3IKAXMRVZNEU5BZKUD7LK6WBA Pete Moss

    Corporate america loves the stupidity of the right.

    Table 1: Trends in Real Gross Domestic Product in the U.S. At Annualized Rates By Selected Quarters From 2007 IV to 2010 I (in Billions of Chained 2005 Dollars)
    Over the 2007 IV – 2009 IV period, real GDP was down by only 2.5%; however, labor market conditions on a wide variety of fronts had deteriorated much more considerably (Table 2). Over this two year period, nonfarm payroll employment had declined by 8.2 million or 6.0%. Total civilian employment (including the self-employed) had dropped by 8.04 million or 5.5%. Average (mean) weekly hours of work in the private sector fell by .8 hours or 2.3%, and the number of workers reporting themselves as employed part-time for economic reasons more than doubled from 4.53 million to 9.21 million. The nation’s civilian labor force fell by 414,000 over this two year period at a time when the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics had earlier projected that it would rise by more than 3 million.1 The steep decline in employment drove up the official unemployment rate from 4.8% in 2007 IV to 10.0% in the fourth quarter of 2009, a more than doubling. Adding in the 9.2 million underemployed and the 5.7 million members of the labor force reserve or “hidden unemployed” in the fourth quarter of 2009 would have increased the underutilization rate to close to 19%.

    You are so owned by corporate America, RWN folk, that it's sad. To those of you under 40, I feel a special sorrow. You'll never see the life I got a taste of in the 1970s as a young teenager. Each successive decade has seen deterioration at the hands of your republican leadership, to the point where you, as adults, deliver pizzas, without realizing your leaders are to blame for your deteriorating lifestyle.

    The Historically Unique National Trends in Corporate Profits Growth and Aggregate Wage and Salary Growth in the U.S.: 2008 IV to 2010 I
    As noted above, the U.S. economy appears to have emerged from the Great Recession starting in the early summer of 2009 though the National Bureau of Economic Research has not yet issued an official ending date.

    The economic recovery in the U.S. over the past 15 months has seen the most lopsided gains in corporate profits relative to real wages and salaries in our history.

    Pre-tax corporate profits fell sharply (-18%) in 2008, but then they began to rise steadily and strongly after 2008 IV before the recession officially ended. By 2010 I, they were equal to $1,567 billion or $572 billion above their 2008 IV level (Table 3).

    http://www.clms.neu.edu/publication/documents/H

    • http://www.patriotpost.com bthewolf

      Which party has been in charge of Congress and the spending and taxes since 2006?

      Liberals, slaves of the party elites their talking points, each successive decade has seen deteriation at the hands of YOUR Democratic leadership, to the point where 17% of the population is unemployed and lucky wage earnere hold 2 jobs to pay for John Kerry's Yacht and Barney Frank's trips on a Ferry.

      • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/C3IKAXMRVZNEU5BZKUD7LK6WBA Pete Moss

        It was stupid the first time you posted it. Fact is economic policy is supposed to be the republican forté, yet it's the republican policy of rewarding the rich and calling government evil that has lead to the decline we are in today.

        • TheDickNixon

          Sure thing, fry cook.

        • http://www.patriotpost.com bthewolf

          No it was factual then it's factual now and it will always be factual. Liberal have spent our economy into the shit with they are Reps or Dems. Just because you're too stupid to face facts is not my problem.

    • http://www.patriotpost.com bthewolf

      Which party has been in charge of Congress and the spending and taxes since 2006?

      Liberals, slaves of the party elites their talking points, each successive decade has seen deteriation at the hands of YOUR Democratic leadership, to the point where 17% of the population is unemployed and lucky wage earnere hold 2 jobs to pay for John Kerry's Yacht and Barney Frank's trips on a Ferry.

  • jimmychoo789

    Different brand ,different season Not every brand is great in same season,and not a brand that you love is great in different season ,so you should learn to choose different brands in different season.In spring ,you can choose moncler jackets,its color is bright and warm,sametime,its style is very lively,this is spring's style; In summer, the brand is easily choose, because summer is the season of clothes ,many brands are designed for summer,here, I advise you to choose Miu Miu Shoes and Christian Louboutin Boot ,their styles are simple and fashionable, wearing them UGG, you will feel cool and elegent ,say shoes,this season you can choose manolo blahnik boots store, its Sandals are Sophisticated and luxurious ;in antumn,you can try Christian Louboutin,its trench coat may give you a romantic season. come to winter,YSL pumps may be your best choose,its down is warm and fashionable,don't forget the Giuseppe Zanotti Shoes,its hing-heel boot can make you facinating in the snow. Gucci

  • Awfulorv

    The only chance we have of saving ourselves is the FAIR TAX. Of course we can't be expected to use our brains. Recall that Medical Doctors could not be persuaded to simply wash their hands during Semmelweiz's time and you have an idea of the problem. And today, would not a nod to birth control rescue millions of children from hunger, sickness, and early death, throughout the world? It's like trying to reason with Tofu.

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