Yes, Liberals – It IS Wrong for the POTUS to Bow at 90 Degrees to Other Heads of State

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Yes, Liberals – It IS Wrong for the POTUS to Bow at 90 Degrees to Other Heads of State

Written By : Sister Toldjah

It never fails that any criticism of President Obama from conservatives is met with the usual “they’re overblowing it/they’re being stupid” cry from some on the left, and this weekend is no different. In response to the legitimate outcry over the President bowing at a clear 90 degree angle to Japanese Emperor Akihito, liberals at blogs like “The Moderate Voice” (does that place even have any moderates posting there anymore?), Alan Colmes’ blog, and others are blasting conservatives for getting upset at our President allegedly “observing a cultural custom.”

Think again. Both Ed Morrissey and Allahpundit dug up a 1994 New York Times piece back when the first Obama bow controversy emerged, and Ed reposted the link to the article again today. In it, the liberal NYT talks about a tradition among American Presidents that does not involve bowing:

It wasn’t a bow, exactly. But Mr. Clinton came close. He inclined his head and shoulders forward, he pressed his hands together. It lasted no longer than a snapshot, but the image on the South Lawn was indelible: an obsequent President, and the Emperor of Japan.

Canadians still bow to England’s Queen; so do Australians. Americans shake hands. If not to stand eye-to-eye with royalty, what else were 1776 and all that about?

[...]

Guests invited to a white-tie state dinner at the White House (a Clinton Administration first) were instructed to address the Emperor as “Your Majesty,” not “Your Highness” or, worse, “King.” And in what one Administration aide called “some emperor thing,” an Army general was cautioned that he should not address the Emperor Akihito at all as he escorted him to the Tomb of the Unknowns at Arlington National Cemetery.

But the “thou need not bow” commandment from the State Department’s protocol office maintained a constancy of more than 200 years. Administration officials scurried to insist that the eager-to-please President had not really done the unthinkable.

To emphasize, it is NOT a “cultural custom” of any kind for any POTUS to bow as Obama did to a head of state. But apparently this State Department – and this President – think differently.

So, “Moderate” Voice’s Kathy Kattenburg, does this make the NYT a group of “yokels” as well? Newsflash: When even the nation’s most liberal newspaper backs up a point conservatives are making, that usually means the left is flat out wrong. Sometimes, lefties, President Obama does make mistakes, and clearly this was one of those times -as was the outrageous bow he made to the Saudi King.

If you’re ok with American Presidents bowing like he has to other heads of state, then perhaps you were disappointed with the outcome of the Revolutionary War, too.

Next?

Cross-posted from the Sister Toldjah blog.

whats_up

typical conservatives, style over substance. The President is free to great world leaders as he sees fit. Get over yourself, your arrogance is appalling.
http://www.superdickery.com mightysamurai

The President is free to great world leaders as he sees fit.

And we’re free to criticize him for it when he does it wrong.

Stop being a dumb troll. Obama screwed up. Again.
http://www.dragonsbreath.blog-city.com blkdragon

We are AMERICANS and have fought and bleed the world over to either free or repel the vast majority of nations out there. WE BOW TO NO ONE!

The fact that our President would (in both cases so far) use a submissive bow (for the society he was in at the time) is an insult to all the men and women who have shed their sweat and blood to make us the nation we are today.

That being said…

It would help if the liberals (or most Americans) understood the etiquette here.

The bow has been used as a formal Japanese greeting for centuries. So the fact that our President would use it while meeting a dignitary of theirs is not my issue.

My issue is that fact that he used a deep bow.

In most societies that use bows including Japan a deep bow (90 degrees or the taking of a knee) is the bow used by a subordinate to a superior.

A shallow bow, normally of less than 45 degrees, is one of respect given to an equal. (Think the bows two martial artists give to each other and the ref before a fight.)
William Teach

Actually, the President is not free to greet world leaders as he wants, particularly when he reduces the status of the United States. That’s why they have protocol. And, regarding substance, we can see that Obama thinks his substance, and the substance of the USA, is less than that of Japan. And pretty much ever other country in the world.
whats_up

Like I said style over substance, thats why at the fundamental level right wing conservatives cant lead.
http://stfu.keenspace.com Tzimisce

Like I said style over substance, thats why at the fundamental level right wing conservatives cant lead.

Posted by whats_up
2009-11-15 17:11:26

Wow, good thing we have Obama out there to show us how it’s done, huh? Otherwise, we inept conservatives would never know what real leadership looks like…
http://TheNixonTape.Blogspot.Com Dick_Nixon

Like I said style over substance, thats why at the fundamental level right wing conservatives cant lead.

Posted by whats_up
2009-11-15 17:11:26

Your level of posting has really declined here ever since you claimed David Duke voted for Bush in 2004. Weak.
tblrk2006

Like I said style over substance, thats why at the fundamental level right wing conservatives cant lead.
Posted by whats_up
2009-11-15 17:11:26

Ok then….what was the substance, that you think, was behind obama and his big bow? WE know what it means to bow like that to that person. Do you and obama?
Safari_Man

Obama learned to bow like this from Larry Sinclair.
CoolCzech

Obama has no style OR substance. I guess we should be thankful he didn’t roll over on his back and let the Emperor rub his tummy.

Sucking up the loss on Healthcare, whats_up? Must suck to see that and the demise of cap & trade. Don’t worry: 2010 will suck even more.
Georgiana

Like I said style over substance, thats why at the fundamental level right wing conservatives cant lead.

Posted by whats_up
2009-11-15 17:11:26

I might be able to forgive a lack of style if Obama showed substance. So far, all I see is an empty suit and a teleprompter.
CoolCzech

Like I said style over substance, thats why at the fundamental level right wing conservatives cant lead.

Posted by whats_up
2009-11-15 17:11:26

Hmmm.

How do you say “STFU” in whats_uptese?
http://regularguy regularguy

A slight bow to a Japanese is polite, respectful and appropriate. Obama’s gesture was waaay over the top. A Harvard graduate this much a buffoon and diplomatically inept speaks volumes.
tblrk2006

A slight bow to a Japanese is polite, respectful and appropriate. Obama’s gesture was waaay over the top. A Harvard graduate this much a buffoon and diplomatically inept speaks volumes.
Posted by regularguy
2009-11-16 09:12:48

Obama should not be doing anything above and beyond a handshake or equivalent.
gabalex

Article I, section 9 of the U.S. Constitution states: “No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince or foreign State.”

If both Thomas Jefferson and Franklin Roosevelt, just to name two presidents, thought it beyond belief to accept or give obeisance, then President Obama should be able to understand the same. Somebody on his staff should brush up on thier history classes. It is shameful, and therefore shows shame on our entire country by association. End of story.
D-Vega

Tempest in a teapot. It is customary when you bow to lower your head lower than the bowee.

Get over it. Is any act of humility a sign of weakness to the right-wing? Are the egos that delicate?
smelvertising

Tempest in a teapot.

Yeah, the leader of the free world bowing to someone who should be bowing to HIM, for America freed his country from the tyranny that the Shintoist dictatorship held in Japan? No biggie. Now, some former-governor from Alaska having an opinion, that’s big stuff!

Is any act of stupidity from Obama irrelevant to D-Vega? Is his head that far up his ass? Is it shocking if I reveal that the answer to the previous two rethorical questions is yes?
http://quantum-kitty.blogspot.com/ simulacre

D-Vega, you obviously know nothing of the etiquette and meanings associated with the Japanese tradition of bowing and should therefore keep quiet on the matter as you’re making an ass out of yourself.

It is a big deal, it was a big deal to every American President prior to Obama and will be a big deal as long as Japan maintains their culture.

Your ilk continually ridicules the right for being insensitive and without nuance or understanding of other cultures; it appears that that was merely another case of projection. Anyone with any knowledge of protocol knows what Obama gave up with his obsequious prostrations…His ridiculous gesture is probably the reason he was pressed so hard on his positions on Hiroshima and Nagasaki -if he had started from a position of strength, he would not have been pressed into further humiliation.
BIG

Maybe Vega is right? I was expecting Obama to drop to his knees and “Lewinski” the Emperor. So maybe just a humiliating bow is a plus for our side?
D-Vega

D-Vega, you obviously know nothing of the etiquette and meanings associated with the Japanese tradition of bowing and should therefore keep quiet on the matter as you’re making an ass out of yourself.

Oh, I do simulacre. My brother spent a long time in Japan, and we have spoken about the customs in detail.

The right is once again peeing their pants over something trivial. But Bush can skip down the street holding hands with the Saudis.

The bow is a gesture of great respect and humility.

Any sign of humility is treated with disdain by the right-wing, as their insecurities prevent them from ceding any high-ground, even if it makes them look obnoxious and arrogant.

Get over yourselves, please. Does having a liberal President represent you around the world drive you that nutz that the man can’t pay a customary gesture to a figurehead without you fabricating outrage? Guess not.
http://quantum-kitty.blogspot.com/ simulacre

42 presidents before him say otherwise. Spitting on the graves of every American that died in WWII at the hands of the Japanese is hardly trivial.

The bow was a gesture of Obama’s recognition of our inferiority, Japan’s superiority and Obama’s personal obsequiousness to their Emperor. Simple humility would have been conveyed by a bow of 45 degrees or less.

Having a bumbling idiot with no clue of precedent, protocol, or etiquette drives me nuts. A jackass who willingly cedes America’s place in the world -dominance bought with blood and sweat of two centuries worth of Americans’ lives- drives me nutz.

If Obama’s gesture was customary, surely you can find another similar gesture made to the Emperor of Japan by a head of state to prove your point…I’m betting you’ll have to go back to feudal Japan’s history to find such precedent.
D-Vega

42 presidents before him say otherwise. Spitting on the graves of every American that died in WWII at the hands of the Japanese is hardly trivial.

That is truly absurd to say, even for you.

The bow was a gesture of Obama’s recognition of our inferiority, Japan’s superiority and Obama’s personal obsequiousness to their Emperor.

Wow. Okay. Who woulda thought you would already outdo yourself? The bow did nothing of the kind. Our inferiority? A country that still occupies Japan to this day? A country that defends Japan to this day from any enemy?

A jackass who willingly cedes America’s place in the world -dominance bought with blood and sweat of two centuries worth of Americans’ lives- drives me nutz.

The President did no such thing.

If Obama’s gesture was customary, surely you can find another similar gesture made to the Emperor of Japan by a head of state to prove your point…I’m betting you’ll have to go back to feudal Japan’s history to find such precedent.

The closest one I can find is the bow paid to the Japanese leader by Richard Nixon in Alaska in 1971.

http://tinyurl.com/yk76rrk

And before you start comparing bow angles, this is a photo whereas with Obama it is video so you can see the whole interaction.

Also, at their 1971 meeting in Alaska, the first visit of a Japanese Emperor to America, President Nixon bowed and referred to Emperor Hirohito and his wife repeatedly as ‘Your Imperial Majesties.

Imperial Majesties?!?!?!? That’s outrageous! This was the man who ordered the attack on Pearl Harbor! Nixon ceded our dominence decades ago! No wonder Japan dominates our auto-market! Nixon’s fault!

I guess that kills the faux bandwagon outrage (FBO) for the day?

I doubt it.
BIG

So Vega, when Obama bowed before the Saudi King he was doing it because of Japanese tradition?
D-Vega

I have a bigger issue with him paying respect to the Saudis than to the JE, BIG.
http://conservativebootcamp.com martinhale

“Tempest in a teapot.”

And yet you’ve been droning on about this alleged non-event since before 10 this morning. If it’s such an insignificant event, then you need to let it go, too, and not worry about what a few conservatives think or say on the subject.

Yeah, yeah, I know, I can visualise the reply already:

“I can’t let these fools go unchallenged.”

But if you can’t, then who’s in control of your actions, old bean?
D-Vega

A rejection of reality is not my fault, martin.

If we all agreed at 10am this morning, the 4 threads on this nonsense would have closed already.
BIG

I have a bigger issue with him paying respect to the Saudis than to the JE, BIG.
Posted by D-Vega
2009-11-16 15:29:43

Care to elaborate? It would be nice seeing a tiny bit of criticism out of you in regards to President Obama in place of the constant boot licking.
D-Vega

I wouldn’t have given the Saudis such courtesy necessarily. They are more of an oppressive regime and support militant Islam more than Japan has in more than 60 years.

Bush kissed and held their hand. Obama bowed. I would have given them just a handshake.

But I am not President, so its hard to judge. You don’t want to offend anyone. So being overly-courteous is preferred to being insulting.
CoolCzech

For the record, I didn’t like Bush doing the hand thing with the King of Saudi Arabia. It’s not a question of “over-courtesy,” but of being mindful of one’s own rank. The American President commands the respect of all, even his enemies. And that’s the whole point of courtesy.
CoolCzech

Imperial Majesties?!?!?!? That’s outrageous! This was the man who ordered the attack on Pearl Harbor! Nixon ceded our dominence decades ago! No wonder Japan dominates our auto-market! Nixon’s fault!

I guess that kills the faux bandwagon outrage (FBO) for the day?

I doubt it.
Posted by D-Vega
2009-11-16 15:18:18

John Adams bowed to the British King and called him “Your Majesty” after the Revolution, as ambassador to Britain. He would have called him that even after becoming President, but I seriously doubt he would have bowed. In the Orient, a bow is the local equivalent of the Western handshake: it’s a courteous greeting, NOT a sign of subservience (unlike in Britain, for example).

The real issue with Obama’s bow is how exaggerated it was. One would have thought he’d be more sensitive to the sensibilities of his own countrymen, after the bad taste his bow to the King of Saudi Arabia left in their mouths.
http://networdblog.blogspot.com/ Christopher_Taylor

For the left it’s either defend their guy or admit that maybe, just maybe President Bush wasn’t as evil and horrible as they keep telling each other and themselves. And that simply is not possible.
BIG

The real issue with Obama’s bow is how exaggerated it was. One would have thought he’d be more sensitive to the sensibilities of his own countrymen, after the bad taste his bow to the King of Saudi Arabia left in their mouths.
Posted by CoolCzech
2009-11-16 17:06:47

Or when he saluted at the Russian Grave of the Unknown Soldier while all he can do is put his hands on his crotch in Arlington. But any criticism of Obama is racist, so maybe Vega is right and just sir back and endure four years of his faux paus. At least we don’t have to watch it on Letterman, Stewart, and Maher like we did for the previous eight years.
Thomcat

The president was wrong to bow to the leader of any country……he should have jumped around him and massaged his shoulders – now there’s class and leadership.