Do your remember the Nataline Sarkisyan story? The young woman needed a liver transplant which, if all went well, would extend her life by six months.
UCLA doctors put her on a list for a liver transplant Dec. 6 and a liver became available four days later, the family said. Her doctors told Cigna in a letter that patients in similar situations had a 65% chance of living six months if they received a liver transplant.But the transplant was not done because Cigna deemed it experimental in Nataline's case and refused to pay for it.
This became the cause celeb for those who want government managed health care and was pointed out as something which would never happen if the government was in charge. CIGNA eventually gave in to the intense pressure from outside groups and approved the surgery, but it was too late and Nataline Sarkisyan died.
CIGNA was lambasted for its decision, called cruel and heartless, the poster company of all of what is wrong with the health care system of this country and cited as a reason why we need government intervention.
However, a week or two ago a government system was highlighted making essentially the same decision. Canada chose to deport, rather than treat, a terminal cancer patient from the Philippines:
A nanny with terminal cancer in Toronto has been ordered back to her native country because of healthcare costs to the Canadian government.
Juana Tejada, 38, was diagnosed with colon cancer in 2006 after arriving on a federal three-year work permit as a live-in caregiver in 2003, but the disease has spread to her lungs, and she is now diagnosed as a terminal Stage Four cancer patient, the Toronto Star reported Monday.Tejada asked Citizenship and Immigration Canada to reconsider her visa renewal but a letter from the agency denied the request.
"In the opinion of a medical officer, this health condition might reasonably be expected to cause excessive demand on health and social services," the letter said.
Nary a peep from the "government health care" crowd. Afterall, it's Canada. But Canada simply stated the reality of the case - the treatment cost would be excessive and provide no real benefit in terms of final outcome.
Now comes a story out of Oregon which ought to dispel all remaining doubts that the bottom line will drive a government run health care system just as it does any private one. Rationing of some sort will exist in any system:
Lung cancer patient, Barbara Wagner, was recently notified that her oncologist-prescribed medication that would slow the growth of cancer would not be covered by the Oregon Health Plan; the plan, however, she was informed, would cover doctor-assisted suicide should she wish to kill herself."Treatment of advanced cancer that is meant to prolong life, or change the course of this disease, is not a covered benefit of the Oregon Health Plan," read the letter notifying Wagner of the health plan's decision.
Wagner says she was shocked by the decision. "To say to someone, we'll pay for you to die, but not pay for you to live, it's cruel," she told the Register-Guard. "I get angry. Who do they think they are?"
Well who they are, ma'am, is your sole provider of insurance from whom you have no appeal.
Read that bold line again and tell me the difference between what CIGNA decided and what Canada and the government run Oregon Health Plan decided?
On the whole, not a bit of difference that I see.
So where are all the articles about how awful this decision is? Where are the protests and angry denunciations?
Nowhere to be found.
The irony? The pharmaceutical company that makes the cancer drug that Wagner needs has called her and offered it to her free of charge.
Oregon health care providers say they've seen a noticable change in how Oregon's Health Services Commission has been willing to treat recurrent cancer in the state.
They won't pay to treat you, but they will pay to kill you - "legally" of course.
Wesley J. Smith, a prominent conservative bioethicist, says that he was not surprised by the events."We have been warning for years that this was a possibility in Oregon. Medicaid is rationed, meaning that some treatments are not covered. But assisted suicide is always covered. And now, Barbara Wagner was faced with that very scenario."
Brave new world, isn't it?
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When a person chooses to enter another country on a temporary visa in order to work, go to school, etc, they accept the good and bad associated with doing so. Canadian tax payers owe Juanita Tejada nothing. Perhaps her past private employers do. There is no law or government regulation to prevent them from stepping up to the plate and offering to pay for Juanita's medical expenses.
Case 2: Actually a good arguement as to why half measures won't work. The benefits provided within the Oregon Health Care Plan is what the Oregon Legislature deemed they should be. The extent of those benefits were likley arrived at by compromise. Some legislators likley argued that there should be no such state plan in the first place while others likley argued that the plan should be comprehensive and available to everyone regardless of ability to pay. If the second option had been placed into law, Barbra Wagner would not have found herself in the delimma that she does.
Posted by woodchuck
2008-06-22 17:27:48
Posted by woodchuck
June 22, 2008 5:27 PM | Reply "
A lot of words to simply say, "I refuse to see the truth."
This sort of thing happens all over and for more conditions than just terminal cancer. Migraine patients are often denied treatments under their government health care plans because the condition is incurable and patients with intractable migraine are too costly to treat merely for their own quality of life. And this happens in government health care meccas where it is illegal to have private care.
Posted by aharris
2008-06-22 18:54:00
Uh, what the hell else is treatment for if not to prolong life or change the course of a disease?
Posted by XBradTC
2008-06-22 19:37:46
June 22, 2008 5:27 PM
In other words, you're kissing the government's ass again with your lame excuses.
Read this, then STFU:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/i...GE.view&pageId=67565
Posted by Kingfisher
2008-06-22 20:45:01
I thought you libs were all for immigrants, legal and illegal. Hell, you wanted to hand everything over to the illegals in this country.
Posted by Kingfisher
2008-06-22 20:52:18
Putting something on a grander scale does not automatically give it more money.
Posted by aharris
2008-06-22 21:07:51
Posted by Don_cos
2008-06-23 07:43:13
Posted by Don_cos
2008-06-23 07:44:00
Posted by Don_cos
2008-06-23 07:44:40
Putting the public vs private healthcare debate aside for a moment; this is sickening no matter who is responsible for it. What kind of backwards society have we become where things like this can happen?
Posted by Glibertarian
2008-06-23 07:55:03
one where God has been marginalized and the value of life has been diminished.
Posted by simulacre
2008-06-23 09:39:44
Posted by Glibertarian
June 23, 2008 7:55 AM
The kind where some faceless bueracrat of the demoncritic party determines who deserves to live and die. One where leftist have determined that abortion and doctor assisted murder are completely acceptable and can be paid for by the tax payer, but life is worthless and only contributes to global warming, that extending life is not covered. Leftist "feel" that God, honor, and the gift of life is meaningless, and that the utopian society is better servered by eliminating the sick, the old, the weak, and the ones that do not meet the criteria for the master race.
Posted by wyo_os_con
2008-06-23 12:25:15
Speaking as someone who served as a member of a group that started a private health plan, and a director of a plan that contracted with a state to administer the health care of 125,000 Medicaid recipients, I've had a number of years experience in dealing with this "system". In the future, you might wish to arm yourself with some facts before you shoot off your mouth about matters in which you have no knowledge. To wit:
Right now in the UK, there is a growing storm of protest gathering about the policy of the NHS to deny future care for those who "top up" their health care by paying for treatment outside of the NHS. The rationale for this policy is that under the NHS, care is provided based on clinical need, not ability to pay. Paying for one's own treatment, usually provided in a foreign country, is seen as an assault on the system, and warrants denying that person future treatment. You'll notice, however, that there is no corresponding cut in the taxes extracted from that person, meaning that they're still paying for the NHS, they just can't use the NHS. That's fair, innit?
Under "universal" nationalised health care, people will no longer die because they don't have insurance; they will die because they DO have insurance. We'll all have insurance, but it will be insurance that won't cover administratively unfavourable, socally unfavourable, expensive, or less than 100% effective treatments. I use the quotation marks around the word universal because there will still be people excluded from care, and every study coming down the pike shows it will be the same old suspects - the poor, the elderly, the infirm. Those in the lower socio-economic groups will continue to have worse health care outcomes than those in higher socio-economic groups, but it will no longer be because they don't have insurance, but rather, it will be the result of them being disproportionally hit with health care denials based on weight, smoking, and other lifestyle-based activities. To this we will add those wealthier people who will be denied care because they went outside the "system". It is possible that under "universal" care, we will do collectively do worse in providing health care than we do now.
There is no perfect health care delivery system, and most people do agree that we do need to find a way to fund broader coverage. But the current top-down proposals are unworkable, fiscally and practically. Unfortunately, proponents of "universal" health care delivery systems routinely paint their solution as a Utopian panacea while glossing over the very real and very difficult limitations of such systems. They want to sell a pig in a poke to the American people in order to get elected and then stick us with a significantly expanded reach of government bureaucracy into the most intimate decisions in your life. Most people don't know the real issues at play in this debate. They hear the politicians and get sucked into the rhetoric without understanding the limitations of the programmes that are being proposed. For example, Hillary often referred to expanding our health care system to 49 million new people. The problem with this is not just in the amount of money involved to pay for it, it's the whole supply side of the equation. I wonder where she was planning to find the doctors, nurses, ancillary providers and equipment to provide health care to 49 million people. If an average physician has a practice of five-hundred patients, 49 million new patients will require 98,000 new qualified doctors to appear from somewhere. By the way, the average consultation that patients have the their doctors right now is only 6 minutes - what will it be with 49 million new patients in the system? Hospitals already can't hire enough qualified nurses in many areas to meet state-mandated staffing ratios - now we're going to chuck 49 million more patients into the mix? In California, the state DHS demands a ratio of six patients to each nurse for general care wards - specialty units go much lower. 49 million patients hitting the hospitals will require several million new qualified nurses from somewhere. What about X-ray techs, phlebotomists, lab techs, respiratory techs, dieticians, etc.? Where are the new MRI's, CAT scans, Gamma Knife's and other high-priced technologies needed to provide care to those 49 million people going to come from?
It all boils down to this - how are you going to feel when you're told, like Ms. Wagner, that we'll pay to kill you, but we won't pay to help you? What if it's your spouse, parent, child, significant other, or best friend who's affected? How will you feel when you're told that seeking treatment outside the system is reason to deny you all further treatment here? How well will it sit with you to be told that the life-saving surgery you need will just have to wait until those ahead of you in line get served, even if that means that you die in the meantime?
Will you love the new "universal" care then?
Posted by martinhale
2008-06-23 13:54:23
1. Case 1. I agree with you; the taxpayers of Canada owe NOTHING to this woman - just as I, and my fellow productive citizens and taxpayers, own NOTHING to you and other freeloading vermin who claim the right to suckle at the public teat. You want health care? You are entitled to all the healthcare you can afford. Other than than, FOAD.
2. Martinhale said it better than I could - read it and TRY to get some reality to penetrate that inches-thick skull.
To put it in terms even YOU should be able to understand, (i) health care, like most other things, is what is known in economics as a "scarce resource," (ii) all scarce resources ARE rationed - either by the market itself (price vs. demand), or by the (always inefficient and ham-handed) intervention of government. You are simply stating your (ignorant and ahistorical) preference to have this rationing done by "the government," whereas the conservatives here recognize that controlling our own destiny is (nearly?) ALWAYS preferable to relying on "benevolent" govenment bureaucrats.
But good luck with that "benevolent government" thing. I'm sure it will work out fine. (NOT!!)
Posted by Respawn
2008-06-23 15:32:59