Understand what this says--as in all things, they seek the APPEARANCE of the thing, rather than the substance of it.

Bling is the APPEARANCE of wealth
Gang-banger bravado is the APPEARANCE of courage

But neither is the real thing--and, in fact both are quite the apothesis of the thing they seek to convey.

Bling makes one look cheap and tawdry. Gang mentality makes one seek weak-willed and dumb.

And Democrat 'caring' keeps the ghettos full.

If Steele is correct--if blacks will always seek appearance over actuality, then the GOP can never woo them wholeheartedly away from the Dems without becoming that which we fight against.

The invisible hand holds the door to the ghetto open--allowing anyone free egress. But because it is not coated in the glittering falseness of Democrat 'activism' it goes ignored.

Is this a constituency ANYONE needs to pursue? Let them wake up on their own--or fail. They will never amount to a portion of the population large enough to really matter--they kill themselves with such fervor that despite their obvious fecundity they remain 13% of the population--as they were when I was a child.

The GOP should only pursue that part of the electorate that can see reality amid the various leftist fantasies that pollute this country--we should NEVER do this according to race.

If it's all about appearance (it certainly was with Obama) then it's ltime to ressurrect black face for the next GOP candidate. Don't want to let all them votes go to the other side.

Sorry, after fifty some odd years of listening to the black community attach itself to victimnhood and the government nipple, I've lost empathy for them.

Maybe it was when they largly cheered for OJ when they thought he was running away from a double white murder rap.

Maybe it was when they killed Koreans in LA.

Maybe it was when they voluntarily resegregated in the colleges.

Maybe it was when they invented such a vulger concept as a black caucus.

Maybe it was when they saw the destruction wrought on their community by the War on Poverty and came back demanding more of the same willful self-destruction by voting for Obama plantation en masse.

Maybe it's because after the white community elected a black president they still cry victim.

Let them pick themselves up and find the dignity they refuse to seek.



add your own.

You think there aren't minorities that display "gang-banger bravado"?

I didn't say that and you know it. The generalization is what illustrates the ignorance. Most minorities would consider GBB or Bling to be in poor taste and low-class.

And minorities don't display GBB at a rate anymore than other groups in this country display "cowboy bravado". It's penis waving.

D-vega, do you know any 'minorities'? I was speaking about blacks in particular as was Steele--not some nebulous idea of 'minorities'.

And I speak of the phenomena first hand--it is a thing I have had to keep out of my house.

And I hope my comments keep 'minorities' out of the GOP or the conservative movement--we want Americans, American voters, American thinkers and movers. We don't want or need anyone whose first identification is to some grievance group--particularly those moronic enough to not be able to see that all they get from the Dems is lip service.

Should I take your non-answer as an admission that you know no 'minorities', then?

Appearance over substance is something that comes up repeatedly in my house. There is a feeling that the appearance of something can 'make' you have that thing--and this has to be endlessly combatted.

And it's everywhere in the black community. Consider the upstanding church ladies who chatter on about their granbabies....who come from their illegitimate children who are themselves having illegitimate children--but THEY are upstanding, moral members of society....because they attend church. The fact that they also sleep around is irrelevent. It is the public appearance that is important. If the appearance is good enough, the tawdry reality it covers can be ignored.

And perhaps that's it--to give up this reliance on appearances the black community would first have to face the tawdry--often horrific-- realities of their community before they could take that invisible hand and leave the ghetto behind.

Much easier to coat your teeth in gold foil and pretend that you're rich.

The GOP's Biggest Problem with Minority Voters is that they have nearly given up on them. And demographically, that's going to be political suicide in the coming years. Instead of making excuses, the GOP should be focused on massive outreach to these voting groups. They are no different than the "NASCAR dads" or "hockey moms".

Posted by D-Vega
2009-03-17 14:38:26

Really, Vega?? Now who's making generalizations?

And like it or not the gang-banger metality is a significant part of Black and even Hispanic culture. And it is full of false bravado, and the illusion of wealth by wearing bling. Do all blacks do it, no and Jack never said they do, he's indicating it's part of the CULTURE. But appaerently you're missing that or overlooking it on purpose.

It's not significant, though it is at a higher rate than non-minorities. False bravado and shallow materialism is an American characteristic, not just for ghetto folk.

Posted by D-Vega
2009-03-17 15:08:55

Really, and your proof of this false bravado and appearance of wealth(not materialism, but the the trend to flash wealth one doesn't have) is where else in the US among all but the gangbangers and wannabes?

I'll grant you Jack is generalizing about the CULTURE but those that don't live the culture, who walk away from it aren't the ones Jack's talking about, are they? And the culture is a BIG part of the black and even Hispanic populace. Trying to deny that or sugar-coat it is just being intentionally delusional.

I have been to both a McCain rally and a Obama one. When I went to the McCain one it was weird only white people around. Its weird because I am in Hawaii where white IS the minority. It was a small rally 3-400 people tops, But it said alot.

Posted by theroadto60
2009-03-17 15:34:29

All it says that fewer minorities identify with McCain and the GOP than they do with Dems. Trying to imply it has to do with racism is disingenuous.

Again, the GOP takes no responsibility for any of their shortcomings.

Only a self-deluded Liberal would see a refusal to pander to grievance-mongering minorities, promising them shiny toys in exchange for votes, as a "shortcoming."

Posted by D-Vega
2009-03-17 15:51:47

Bwahahahhaha good one DV. How the fuck does the GOP PANDER to the RR??

Only a self-deluded conservative would think a) that's all that's entailed in reaching out to minorities,

So what is a "minority voter" except someone who goes around demanding that he deserves special treatment because of where his ancestors came from? Oh, please enlighten us as to what "reaching out to minority voters" entails.

and b) that you don't already pander to grievance-mongering minorities like the religious right.

And precisely what kind of special treatment under the law have religious people asked for and received?

You see, samurai? Again, the GOP takes no responsibility for any of their shortcomings.

What shortcomings are those, exactly? The shortcoming of not countering your side's lies with more lies?

Were they supposed to spend decades calling the left a bunch of vile racists? Were they supposed to make up ridiculous lies about how liberals want to take away minority voting rights and reinstitute racial segregation?

Or was it the shortcoming of not favoring policies and programs that are systematically destroying the lives of so many black Americans? Is that the "shortcoming" of the GOP?

Were they supposed to be in favor of getting low-income blacks addicted to the welfare state with endless government handouts? Were they supposed to encourage illegitimacy in the black community by giving bigger handouts to black women who had children out of wedlock?

Help me out here D-Vega, I can't seem to put my finger on any of the "shortcomings" of the GOP.

Only a self-deluded conservative would think a) that's all that's entailed in reaching out to minorities

Funny, because that's all the left ever seems to do.

"Vote for me and I promise to make banks give more home loans to black people!"

"Vote for me and I'll increase funding for food stamps!"

"Vote for me and I'll give government subsidies to black businesses!"

"Vote for me and I'll pay your mortgage and your gas bills!"

(Nevermind that all those things ultimately end up perpetuating the very problem they were supposed to solve, or creating even bigger problems in the future.)

Well, okay, that's not all the left ever seems to do. The rest of the time you just call your opponents racist.

Are you really saying that?!?


Posted by D-Vega
2009-03-17 16:00:35

As the others so aptly described above me YES, I AM, and was!!

Abortion: killing a human being for the sole benfit of the mother/parents is legal and moral how?

Sex-ed: since when has the public school system been the arbitar of what a child can and should know about sex? let alone WHEN?

Gay Marriage: redifining the the legal definiton of the social contract that is a large part of the stability of that society is good how?

Now you just need to stop thinking every minority wants a handout, Its insulting.

And yet, it's the very thinking that won liberals the minority vote in the first place. Strange, that.

But you dont care, and thats why alot of the GOP is white.

So you're saying the GOP judges voters by the content of their character rather than the color of their skin?

Lots of Democrats in the KKK.

You think minority voters want a hand out you said so yourself.




A lot of people who voted for the Obamateur want hand outs. They are on record saying their mortgage and car payments would be made if Obama was elected.

Tim Kaine is black? Learn something new everyday I guess.

road to 60, wasn't one of the first arguments you made, under your current user name, and were subsequently dusted on, stated Todd Palin called for Alaska to succeed from the Union? You never did admit the epic loss of that argument. Why didn't you?

D-vega. I'm not making a generalization. I'm talking about what I have to deal with every day. See, I don't just 'know' black people, they're my kids. My family. And I think I've got a much better view of what goes on inside the black community than you do.

gang 'culture' is rampant. Rampant. Are they all in gangs? No--but to be 'real', you ACT like it. And the attitudes are pervasive. The saddest part is that there are adults passing this crap on to their kids(who are largely illegitimate) as values, as traditions.

You have no idea what I've got to fight every single day to keep my kids out of it.

Think I was joking about those church ladies? I know a woman, five kids, four men--no husband--and no intent to have obe(despite constant complaining that she can't find a good man) who preaches the gospel at me every chance she gets because I'm not christian, and she's my friend, so she feels she has to save my soul.

She sees no contradiction in her actions--which STILL include partying on the weekends like any other hoochie.

She's 'saved'.

You have no idea.

Oh, yeah, she voted for Obama.

The GOP doesn't need to change itself to get her vote--the GOP needs to focus on getting the votes of commited sane individuals who can do the party good. They don't need to become democrat-lite to try to woo idiots who vote for the party that founded the Klan.

Oh, yes, I DO say that kinda thing to black peoples' faces. And no one's tried to kill me recently--maybe there's hope.

Posted by bthewolf
2009-03-17 22:34:28

Funny you have called out people for spelling grammer but now its different. So what, I dont really care. Widdle feelings hurt, good.


you read shit into another person's post that was NEVER there
Posted by bthewolf
2009-03-17 22:34:28

It was there I called Cav on it even used his own words. As in I "quoted" him. So who is reading shit thats not there. You buddy

star not start.

It was there I called Cav on it even used his own words. As in I "quoted" him. So who is reading shit thats not there. You buddy

Posted by theroadto60
2009-03-17 22:49:28


And YOU read more into his statement then he even TRIED to imply, shithead!! He said NOTHING about HAND OUTS -- He said they seek SPECIAL TREATMENT

So what is a "minority voter" except someone who goes around demanding that he deserves special treatment because of where his ancestors came from? Oh, please enlighten us as to what "reaching out to minority voters" entails.

Posted by CavalierX
2009-03-17 16:06:34

Where does that imply or mention ANYTHING about minorities seeking handouts? WHERE? Please O MASTER of the stupid does he imply that? So far all you've got is your delusion.

What I really said. He was a member of a group in alaska that wanted a chance to vote on succeeding from the union.

And you're a member of a group that once supported racial segregation and is currently trying to repeal the First Amendment via the "Fairness" Doctrine. What's your point?

He made up quotes from posters. Say, I wonder, if maybe they are sockpuppets of the same person? Birds of a feather etc.
Posted by Dick_Nixon
2009-03-17 23:05:06

made up quotes? Prove it put up or shut up.

And you're a member of a group that once supported racial segregation and is currently trying to repeal the First Amendment via the "Fairness" Doctrine. What's your point?
Posted by mightysamurai
2009-03-17 23:05:19



First off racial segregation is/was before my time. Kinda like blaming anyone from the south for slavery. Its history but thats it. Lets stay in this centry.

Fairness Doctrine should not become a law and it will not. But keep spending time on it. Beat the dead horse, beat it good and loud. That time could be spent I dunno getting a black person to vote for your party. naaaaaa crazy talk

He said NOTHING about HAND OUTS -- He said they seek SPECIAL TREATMENT
Posted by bthewolf
2009-03-17 23:03:05

Ok then, what is the difference between Special treatment and a hand out.

What bill is the Fairness Doctrine attached to. Is it even packaged with a bill? Is it the same FD that Obama will not support. Hmm how will it be a law if the president will not sign it.


Kinda takes the wind out of the sails when the president. The guy that signs laws into laws will not sign it.

Why are you overlooking that.

But it said alot. ~ Posted by theroadto60 2009-03-17 15:34:29

Yes, it says that the minorities are too closed minded to show up and hear what the man had to say.

The leader of our party is a black jack ass. ~ Posted by theroadto60 2009-03-17 21:23:58

Can’t argue with that.

Is it the same FD that Obama will not support. Hmm how will it be a law if the president will not sign it. ~ Posted by theroadto60 2009-03-18 0:00:31

Is this the same Obama who is against pork and earmarks?

"unless you want to include welfare, but that doesn't discriminate based on race."

the hell it doesn't.

And, you know, I'm kinda annoyed that D-vega doesn't have any more 'insights' now.
Posted by jack
2009-03-18 13:19:24

I think he more or less stated his case.

What I find is what Thomas Sowell and Shelby Steele articulate so well: the current "definition" of what it means to "be black" (even that concept ITSELF) has now come to mean shorthand for the more backward and self-defeating pathologies that used to be--by-and-large--confined to Southern blacks before the Great Migration.

Nowadays, it's important to "be 'authentically' black" and the definition of "blackness" is eaten through with corrosive elements like: downplaying education to the point of ridicule; valuing style over any substance (e.g., having a "serious ride" but living in apartment, or having great clothes but a low-paying job, or looking cool at class, but failing, (or even being Republican!)); and always, as a knee-jerk first reaction, using racism to explain any difficult event that happens to include a white person. This and so many other negative things have come to define what it means to "be black." Anyone who seeks another way is making a de facto choice to cease being "authentic" and the ensuing emotional and cognitive pain that that thought brings keeps many black folks "on the plantation."

And even those black folks who don't succumb to the pathologies themselves are strongly influenced to "represent" in order to keep themselves in good with fellow blacks. As I've mentioned before, I'm a USAF Reservist, but I work at a software company full-time and in both arenas I've seen so many black folks who make Steve Urkel look "ghetto" still trying to "kick it like they in the hood" replete with the language and appearance. I've seen the most nerdy software developers turn on a dime and send e-mails so laden with slang I had to send to a fellow black conservative who was more hip than I to translate. That same developer lives in a MUCH different place than the folks in the Central District in Seattle, eats more cosmopolitan fare (Indian anyone?), and highly values education, but at the end of the day feels so concerned to maintain authentic blackness that he will "pretend" to himself and others that he's one of the homeys. It is an amazing thing to witness.

I can't tell you how often, when I was growing up in the 70's and 80's, I was ridiculed for trying to get A's in class, or for changing from slang to business English when in school or interacting with the public at work. I know personally what it feels like to say, "I don't want to 'be black', I want to just be me and follow my own path."

And it's not like I don't see similar things in white or hispanic culture; the problem is that it's so disproportionately represented in the "black community."

So in a way, D-Vega is right--it really sucks when you get included in a generalization and you aren't even remotely like the people that gave rise to the generalization. I know from firsthand experience how frustrating it is. But the painful truth is that there are ENOUGH folks, too many folks, that give the generalization legs.

The GOP will not "get" more black votes until more black people themselves stop willingly remaining in the psychological chains of "being black."

"So in a way, D-Vega is right--it really sucks when you get included in a generalization and you aren't even remotely like the people that gave rise to the generalization."

No, because D-vega think that the generalisation is a myth. That there is some quiet, non-culturally active majority of black people who are vehemently against the generalisation--when it is, sadly, the opposite that's true.

I stared in amazement at a friend of mine completely changed the tone, timbre, and content of her voice and verbiage as she--in a single conversation--turned from speaking to me to speak to a co-worker who is 'more ghetto'. I called her on it later.

See, if you perpetuate the notion that being, acting and speaking as if one is smart is 'acting white', then you leave open the idea that being, acting and spreaking as if one is stupid is prperly 'acting black'.

Who wins there? Toothless rednecks in sheets? No, Democrats. They've managed to get the darkies to keep THEMSELVES down.

How did this atrocity replace a legitimate culture?

"The GOP will not "get" more black votes until more black people themselves stop willingly remaining in the psychological chains of "being black." "

Absolutely correct.

So how do you show them?