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Rand Paul working on Social Security reform?
Written By : TrogloPundit

From the Daily Caller:

(Rand) Paul said Thursday that he will introduce another bill “in the next two or three weeks” that would address the Social Security entitlement program by raising the age of eligibility for younger workers and use “means testing” to determine if a citizen with high income is eligible to receive benefits.

Seems like, for a long time, only Wisconsin’s Paul Ryan had the stones to talk Social Security and, more generally, entitlement reform. Now Rand Paul is getting in on it, too. Wonder what a private conversation between the two of them would be like?

Bonus question: Paul Ryan? Rand Paul? Isn’t that just a little too “a girl named John?”*

Back to Paul (Rand Paul): raising the retirement age is – and I’m sure I’ll regret saying this when I’m 67 – a good idea. Really, my generation should be planning to work until age 70 or older. Our money will last longer that way, and we’ll stay healthier longer, too.

“Means testing,” though: I’m not so comfy with that. We all know Social Security isn’t really secure. It’s no promise. There’s no trust fund. But it’s been sold as such. It’s been sold as an investment. Something you’re paying into with the promise of getting back later. “Means testing” means having to sell your house before you can get your benefits.

I should have to sell my house to get my own money back?

But, I suppose. How does that go? Don’t let the perfect beat the living crap out of the better-than-now? Something like that.

This passage caught my eye:

Paul’s call for a re-examination of the nation’s entitlement programs is likely to cause contention within his own party. House Speaker John Boehner apologized Wednesday for making the very same suggestion last year.

“I made a mistake when I did that, because I think having the conversation about how big the problem is is the first step,” Boehner told CNN. “And once the American people understand how big the problem is, then you can begin to outline an array of possible solutions.”

Holy Crap, Mr. Speaker, we haven’t had that conversation yet? Where do you get your news?

* Bonus vague movie reference!

(Posted by The TrogloPundit)

0
  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Shawn-Boyett/100001238012899 Shawn Boyett

    We shouldn’t have to raise the retirement age. The whole reason we are in this crisis to begin with is because every President for the last 30 years have been borrowing money out of Social Security when it was swimming with cash and telling us it would all be A-Ok!

    The politicians brought this upon us, so they should pay for our social security. Most of them have too much money to begin with anyway, and I’m sure all of their wealth isn’t gained legally. Just look at how many people Obama has rewarded through the spoils system. I want some of that money for me when I get older!

    I suppose the only thing we can do right now is raise the retirement age to about 70 or so. That’s all we can do. Maybe later on down the road when the baby boomers are gone we can lower it back down to 65 or something.

    Oh wait! That would have to include the government giving people their money back! OOPS! Never mind!

    • Anonymous

      We shouldn’t have to raise the retirement age.

      No, we really should. Social Security was never supposed to be used to take care of everybody over 60 years old. It was supposed to be for elderly people who have no children or grandchildren to take care of them and are too enfeebled to take care of themselves. It was also never supposed to pay people for more than a few years. Back when SS was created people were lucky if they even lived to the age of 60, never mind beyond it. Now people are living to their 80s and beyond, and the system can’t handle that level of payouts forever. It’s going to have to happen eventually, and it might as well happen now.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Shawn-Boyett/100001238012899 Shawn Boyett

        Yeah that’s true! You have a good point. That’s the other medical aspect of this argument. But you have to remember about the baby boomer era too when everyone was all happy WW2 was over and they all decided to come together and have sex all at one time and get preggy. That’s the reason we have this huge hump where all of the sudden Social Security is going to have a huge deficit for many years to come. What I’m trying to argue is had our government been more responsible in the past and they had kept the surpluses that social security was raking in at the time instead of spending it on other things we ought not to be spending it on, at the worst we could have long delayed this crisis and at best we could have prevented it altogether and not have to raise the retirement age in the first place.

        It’s a pretty thin line we’re skimming either way. If medical advances continue and get to a point where surviving the century mark becomes normal, we’ll probably have to raise it. I agree.

        • Anonymous

          What I’m trying to argue is had our government been more responsible in the past and they had kept the surpluses that social security was raking in at the time instead of spending it on other things we ought not to be spending it on, at the worst we could have long delayed this crisis and at best we could have prevented it altogether and not have to raise the retirement age in the first place.

          I will concede the point that had Congress not treated Social Security like a bottomless trust fund it probably wouldn’t be a gnat’s wing away from bankruptcy today.

          My point, though, is that raising the minimum age for SS benefits (not the minimum retirement age; people can retire whenever they please if they have the money to support themselves) is not something we can avoid. We WILL have to raise the minimum eventually and this is probably our best chance to do so with a minimum of discomfort. The longer we wait, the more painful it will be to change.

          The problem with Social Security (apart from the fact that it’s an unconstitutional entitlement program and functionally identical to a ponzi scheme) is it’s being used for things it was never intended for. (Oh yes, there’s a history lesson coming. Settle in for story time, boys and girls. And don’t forget to take notes. There will be a quiz.)

          The thing about SS is it was created during a time when “investment” and “savings” as we know it today really didn’t exist for anyone other than the very wealthy. 401(k)s did not exist. Individual investment in the stock market was almost unheard of except among the rich. Most lower and middle class Americans didn’t trust the stock market and didn’t have the education to effectively play the stock market if they did. Stock brokers were very rare and could only be found in major cities like NYC or Chicago (it was rare for any company other than railroads or heavy industry to have a presence anywhere outside their home state), and most Americans couldn’t afford to hire one anyway. Pensions existed but they were very limited. If you lived outside of a big city you probably didn’t get a pension. If you were a low-level worker or a self-employed farmer you definitely didn’t get a pension. If lower-to-middle class Americans had any savings at all it was in the form of “rainy day” savings; a cache of money they could use to get back on their feet if their house burned down or the crops were wiped out for a season or two.

          The only “investment” the non-rich were able to make back then was children. When you got too old to work your kids would take care of you until you died, and when they got old their kids would take care of them, and so on. And there was NO talk of children moving away and putting down roots in another town when they grew up. If you were born in a tiny podunk town you Goddamn lived, worked, and died there too, probably in the exact same house you grew up in. That’s why if you’re a fan of the Western genre you hear a lot of stories about young people who were disowned and cursed by their families because they ran off to the “big city” or eloped with one of the hired hands. They were shirking their moral obligation to stick around and care for their parents when they reached old age. That’s also why there was such a stigma around being an “Old Maid”. Women with no children were a drain on society because they had no recourse but to mooch off the children of their brothers or sisters (if they had any), or the charity of others.

          But I digress. In those days, if you weren’t wealthy and had no children when you got too old to work you basically had two options. Either you begged for money or you starved. And as harsh as it sounds, this was a situation most Americans were willing to live with prior to the 1930s. It was just generally understood that when you reached a certain age you were expected to settle down and churn out some kids who would take care of you when you got old. Consequently it was very rare for someone to be in a position where they were too old to work and had no one to take care of them. Poverty among senior citizens was relatively low and most of the seniors who did live in poverty could scrape by through the charity of their neighbors.

          The turning point was the Great Depression, when poverty rates among senior citizens shot up past 50%. THAT was what Social Security was originally designed for. Support for the huge number of seniors who were suddenly forced into poverty by the Great Depression but were far too old to re-enter the workforce (not that there would’ve been any jobs available to them if they could).

          Which brings me back to my main point. Social Security was originally intended only as emergency support for seniors. If you had any way at all of supporting yourself in your old age, you were not supposed to be receiving SS checks. And of course, it was assumed in the 30s and 40s that anyone old enough to qualify for SS benefits would only live for a few more years, making the expense of supporting them relatively small.

          It was never anticipated back in 1937 (although in hindsight it should have been) that average life expectancy would increase so dramatically in the years to come. Nor was it anticipated that a whole industry would spring up dedicated to helping non-wealthy people invest their money and save for retirement, and that people would start accepting SS checks when they have no need for them. Social Security fundamentally changed the way Americans think of retirement. Retirement used to be what happened to you if you got so old you could hardly button your shirt in the morning, not a 10-20 year vacation. People didn’t look forward to retirement, they dreaded it. It was the ultimate sign of impending death. Now it’s become a kind of reward for reaching old age. An entitlement in the most literal sense of the word. We have people who are fully capable of supporting themselves filing for Social Security, and accepting SS checks for upwards of twenty years.

          This should not have happened. We should have put the minimum age for SS benefits on a sliding scale tied to average life expectancy years ago. We also should have instituted a means test to prevent people from accepting SS benefits when they already have their own private nest egg. But Congress didn’t want to be accused of hating old people, and the longer they put it off the harder it became to change.

          Now that Social Security is in crisis we have an opportunity to fix those mistakes. If we don’t do it now, it will become that much harder to do in the future.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Shawn-Boyett/100001238012899 Shawn Boyett

            Very. Very good post.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Shawn-Boyett/100001238012899 Shawn Boyett

            Very. Very good post.

      • RochesterNY

        Uh, well 62. But don’t let the facts get in the way.

        • Anonymous

          any other facts of the post you don’t agree with?

        • Anonymous

          It’s easy to tell when you’ve got liberals beat because they start picking on tiny irrelevant points rather than responding to the substance of the argument.

    • Anonymous

      It should be adjusted to correspond with reality.

      People live longer they should work longer before retiring.

    • Anonymous

      1937: Life expectancy: ~60. Age for full benefits: 65. Difference: -5.

      2011: Life expectancy: ~80. Age for full benefits: 67. Difference: +13.

      See why it worked different in 1937 than it does today?

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Shawn-Boyett/100001238012899 Shawn Boyett

        Yeah I see the data! And I fully understand it. That’s all cool and I gotcha. But despite the data, I still feel that the system could have worked if we had kept the surpluses for Social Security and got over the Baby Boomer hump. It was essentially taking money out of the Social Security fund and sticking IOU’s in their place to promote the government’s wasteful spending.

        It’s all very well documented. I’m not disputing your point. Medical advances have made it much harder for the program to function. But it was still possible if our government had done what it was supposed to do.

        • Anonymous

          Saying a program would have worked if only the feds could be trusted not to touch a huge sum of money sitting right in front of them is essentially saying it could not have worked.

          Like saying it made sense to slather your kid in bbq sauce and leave him in the lion cage to cut on babysitter costs if only those lions could have been trusted.

          If it all hinges on a certain group of people acting completely different than they ever have in the past then it’s a bad plan.

          A better solution would be to simply divvy up all the money brought in this year for social security evenly up amongst all the recipients this year. That would mean that it fluctuates a lot and some people will get screwed but by leaving no surplus and no deficit and only spending exactly what is present in each years budget at least it will be sustainable forever.

        • Anonymous

          Saying a program would have worked if only the feds could be trusted not to touch a huge sum of money sitting right in front of them is essentially saying it could not have worked.

          Like saying it made sense to slather your kid in bbq sauce and leave him in the lion cage to cut on babysitter costs if only those lions could have been trusted.

          If it all hinges on a certain group of people acting completely different than they ever have in the past then it’s a bad plan.

          A better solution would be to simply divvy up all the money brought in this year for social security evenly up amongst all the recipients this year. That would mean that it fluctuates a lot and some people will get screwed but by leaving no surplus and no deficit and only spending exactly what is present in each years budget at least it will be sustainable forever.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Shawn-Boyett/100001238012899 Shawn Boyett

            Again, you can blame the previous generation for that. Far too long has the populace simply been happy to exist while the government takes our rights little by little. From slowly building up overwhelming industry nanny laws that helped wiped out steel production in Pittsburgh to our slowly increasing deficit, the problems that this generation have been handed are all around us.

            The people should have held their politicians responsible for their increasing corruption. One of the greatest reasons our country is so corrupt today is because for too long our politicians have grown used to being given a free pass on everything they do, and being reelected regardless.

            This country started going down in the 1950′s, starting with with Kennedy Assassination and the Vietnam controversy. Since then, we have unnecessarily started propping up puppet governments all over the world and spending recklessly. Everyone was just so happy after WW2 that they just sunk into this weird, blissful “Everything is so fine and the world is full of cute bunnies!” state.

            I’m ready for me some Ron Paul about now.

          • Anonymous

            There is plenty of blame to go around. None of it will help balance the budget.

            I won’t argue that politics is corrupt today, but I do take issue with the ‘increasing’ bit. It’s always been corrupt. It’s more apparent now due to A) being alive now rather than in the past and B) better communications.

            I am seriously starting to think that a democracy cannot function for the size of country we have and for the size of federal government. Since the country is unlikely to shrink then the role of the federal government needs to.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Shawn-Boyett/100001238012899 Shawn Boyett

            I would disagree with what you say. I’ve talked to elders who talk to me about how the government has slowly become corrupt. You can go into history and count down the acts that slowly give more and more power to the federal government, ignoring the rights of the states and making them do whatever the hell they want them to do.

            Any government can function under a democracy, at any size. America has stood for two centuries now, and they have the capacity to stand for many more. It’s all about getting the separation of powers right, and our founding fathers hit it pretty close to the bulls-eye. Remember, the constitution was designed to limit the power of the central government. Most of the power of the Union was suppose to reside in the will of the 50 states that created it! That power has been under assault for many years now. We have to get this nation back to the design our founding fathers originally intended it. Pull the government out of our lives, and let the states do most of the work. It’s really not that hard to imagine. Eliminate the FCC, NASA, the IRS, the Fed Reserve.

            So many programs we don’t need, and States could provide capable alternatives that will be the most successful for their own geographical area.

          • Anonymous

            I’ve talked to elders who talk to me about how the government has slowly become corrupt. You can go into history and count down the acts that slowly give more and more power to the federal government, ignoring the rights of the states and making them do whatever the hell they want them to do.

            No one is arguing that the federal government isn’t much larger than it used to be. However, that’s not necessarily the same thing as corruption.

            Corruption has always been part and parcel of politics. For instance, look up the Tammany Hall political machine, an organization that dates back to the late 1700s and was infamously compared to a bloodthirsty tiger killing democracy.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Shawn-Boyett/100001238012899 Shawn Boyett

            Again, you can blame the previous generation for that. Far too long has the populace simply been happy to exist while the government takes our rights little by little. From slowly building up overwhelming industry nanny laws that helped wiped out steel production in Pittsburgh to our slowly increasing deficit, the problems that this generation have been handed are all around us.

            The people should have held their politicians responsible for their increasing corruption. One of the greatest reasons our country is so corrupt today is because for too long our politicians have grown used to being given a free pass on everything they do, and being reelected regardless.

            This country started going down in the 1950′s, starting with with Kennedy Assassination and the Vietnam controversy. Since then, we have unnecessarily started propping up puppet governments all over the world and spending recklessly. Everyone was just so happy after WW2 that they just sunk into this weird, blissful “Everything is so fine and the world is full of cute bunnies!” state.

            I’m ready for me some Ron Paul about now.

      • RochesterNY

        Let’s just extend the income level that ss taxes are collected from form 100 to 200,000.

    • conservativeminority

      I agree 100%. Just because we have gotten healthier shouldn’t be a mandate on us. Government should’t tell us just because we have become healthier, that’s a legitimate reason to raise our life expectancy level. Why should we get punished for being healthier?

      As Americans we have every right to retire any time. We’ll have our savings, 401 K’s, private properties(houses), biz, etc. At least for the most wise ones but for those who don’t, is only a mandate by the government.

      Not only SS is unconstitutional but is the biggest reason why Government can’t do anything right. Of course I’ll get upset, is my money and not theirs. If I had the choice, I wish I could not get SS. SS is the most dumbest program in history and unfortunately the most time consuming.

      Is just a stupid program and the reasons for “reform” is just more stupid. At least give us the choice to have it or not. Now thats reform.

      • Anonymous

        “I agree 100%. Just because we have gotten healthier shouldn’t be a mandate on us. Government should’t tell us just because we have become healthier, that’s a legitimate reason to raise our life expectancy level. Why should we get punished for being healthier?”

        It’s not a punishment, it’s math.

        People are living longer. To keep the system we have that means A) we raise the retirement age to reflect this, B) we cut benefits, C) we raise taxes on workers to provide for increased social security costs or D) we keep everything the same and just add to the debt until it spirals out of control crippling the US and bringing the entire world economy down with it (forcing us to eat the elderly and feeble to survive).

        Voters have outright rejected B and C so we can either choose A or be forced to accept D.

  • Mary A.

    If those who paid into social security through their jobs were all who received it and if our so-called elected officials could have kept their greedy hands off of it, social security would be so solvent now that social security wouldn’t even be a problem.
    Greed is what has spoiled this country and both parties are responsible for their own brand of greed which touches all who play by the rules. Rules made and created by those who live above them. Our political leaders who are made up of slick talking lawyers that twist words within their favor to rape this country of all it’s moralistic values while getting rich at the same time are voted out of power, then and only then will this country begin to heal it’self. Money truly is the root of all evil. But those who love this country because of it’s riches and not it’s people, can’t see past their own wallets. Sad isn’t it?
    God bless any who understand and are not offended in a world that is truly offensive to any true God fearing man who is not part of this world but part of the solution and can live outside the world and live peacefully amongst it’s inhabitants without money being ones main priority.

  • Cptnerd

    I had a thought about Social Security and a possible reform of it. Why not treat it like it started, as insurance, including a deductible? Do whatever calculations have to be done to determine how much you as a retiree need to cover for your cost of living for one year, and determine a deductible that you have to cover out-of-pocket? Once you meet the deductible, Social Security takes over and covers the rest of your basic expenses (food, shelter, medicine, utilities), whatever the reasonable amount? Some things wouldn’t be covered, such as luxury items like jewelry or televisions, but it would at least reduce the amount being paid out by SS, without putting undue hardship on someone who doesn’t have a lot of retirement income, since their basic needs would still be met. It would be a kind of means test, which wouldn’t go down too well with the leftists, but at least they would be able to argue about what should be considered “basic living needs” and push for more things to be covered under it, or to argue for a smaller deductible.

    • Cptnerd

      I forgot to mention that SS would take over if you can’t meet the deductible. The deductible would also factor in how much pension, 401k, etc. income the retire has to draw upon, medical expenses for the previous year affecting current cost of living, etc.

  • Anonymous

    Harry Reid stated this past week that there will be no action in the Senate on any Social Security reform and that any attempt to reform SS meant that the GOP wants to end SS and kill everyone over 67.

  • Serfer62

    The Supremes have already ruled that if you pay into SS you get the money. The age should be raised and a private investment into SS allowed as President Bush tried to do several times (PS…rinos killed that bill)

  • Serfer62

    The Supremes have already ruled that if you pay into SS you get the money. The age should be raised and a private investment into SS allowed as President Bush tried to do several times (PS…rinos killed that bill)

    • freeman

      Really? In Flemming v. Nestor they ruled exactly the opposite. In fact, on the Social Security History site they admit that “In its ruling, the Court rejected this argument and established the principle that entitlement to Social Security benefits is not contractual right.”

      And the Social Security act itself says, “”The right to alter, amend, or repeal any provision of this Act is hereby reserved to the Congress.”

      http://www.ssa.gov/history/nestor.html

  • Gov Watch1

    Social Security and programs like it should definitely be substantially cut or gradually, be completely dismantled. Rand Paul’s plan is a decent start towards cutting the program, though I don’t think it’s quite as ambitious as what’s truly needed. The problem for politicians (even the few who truly want to cut the size of government) is that there is often strong public outcry from media and certain corners of the public when any entitlement programs are targeted. Even conservatives are hesitant when it comes to the specifics of reforming Social Security or Medicare. Many wrongly see these programs as “trusts” or accounts that they have paid into. This is of course far from the truth. Once the money goes into the government they spend it however they think is best, based on current political incentives. True reform is desperately needed right now. I don’t know all the answers, but I think it starts with people educating themselves about government and taking initiative to direct their elected officails towards reform and reducing the size of government. Here is a link to a resource that gives allot of good information on how to begin.

    http://hubpages.com/hub/Staying-Vigilant-About-Government

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