The Atlas Interview: Bat Yeor

You can listen to the whole interview and read the transcript here.

Click below for excerpts.

PG: Now in “Eurabia” you outlined the Euro-Arab axis, that it wasn’t an accident, but there was a deliberate plan, and was the object? What was the objective?

BY: Well, in this book I examined particularly this policy of appeasement that was conducted by Europe, the European community. This time it was the nine countries, and it started in part after the Kippur War in 1973, and it was in fact a French plan. France didn’t want to lose their colonies, and they want to have good  relations with their Arab colonies — you know that France had huge Arab colonies — and after the Algerian war of liberation they lost all their colonies. They lost Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria, the last one. They wanted to have good relations with these countries, and they went along they have tacted. The plan drawn by the Mufti, the Mufti of Jerusalem.

PG: Right, and he was with the Nazis?

BY: He was with the Nazi. There were many Nazi also in Egypt, and Egypt was part, also, of this plan, and the plan was to build up a strong alliance with France and the Arab countries, and against America and against the protestant people.

PG: Now, why against America? As a counter-power?

BY: Yes, first of all as a counter-power, but because America has saved the world from Nazism. It is thanks to America that the dictatorships like fascism, like Nazism were defeated. So America was the big enemy. It was a democratic and it was the big enemy of dictatorship and of the fascism regimes. Now, there were many Nazi people who has immigrated in Egypt and lived in Egypt under the Nasser regime, and of course they were very friendly with the Mufti, so this  plan was built up against America and against Israel. Now de Gaulle, who was part of this sought to bring not only France, but the European community. Then the nine countries. Because this time de Gaulle and Germany were building together the European community; the integration.

PG: Yes, the integration, it would eliminate the European countries, so to speak.

BY: Not only that. It would make out of Europe a huge block, because it would not be only France, it would be nine countries allied with twenty-two Arab countries. It would have make a fantastic block which would be more powerful than America, and this was the object, and for the Arabs, not so much for the French although there were many anti-Semites still in France … . France was in ally with the German regime, the German Nazi regime, so it has collaborate in deportation of Jews and extermination of Jews.

PG: But the people in Europe really were not onboard with this, they didn’t know that this was happening.

BY: No, they didn’t know but still there were people who were very favorable to such a position, because from the beginning of the century there was such an anti-Semitic climate in France and in whole of Europe. If it wouldn’t have been, there wouldn’t have been also the genocide of the Jews, if the climate was not so anti-Jewish. And it is not because the American and the ally with the allies’ troop succeeded in crushing down Nazism that all those feelings disappeared from one day to another.


BY: Yes, everything are inaccurate, because of the Islamization and Palestinization of the universities. Because it is in the universities that the Palestinian cult against Israel, against the west, against America developed. It is in fact the Palestinization of the universities that have totally obfuscated this reality, the history. And us in the west, we are the heir of the Greek and Roman civilization. We have to have our studies based on fact, on rationalism, and they should be separate from policies. They should not be submitted to policies. Now we are submitted to policy.

PG: I got it! Now I want to ask you something else. I want to ask you about George Bush? George Bush after 911 was right there! You know, the Bush  doctrine I thought was gorgeous. I thought it was a gorgeous doctrine, and he stopped terrorists and the state sponsored terror. But there has been a change! There has been a change in his policy. This meeting with the Muslim Brotherhood he‘d like to have, I mean Condi is reaching now. This latest visit to these Saudi founded Islamic Center where hw appointed a special envoy to the OIC. What do you think happened to George Bush?

BY: Well, George Bush has been weakened internally.

PG: He has been weakened internally by the left?

BY: Yes, by the left, he cannot…and also by the evolution of
the War in Iraq, and by the….by the situation in general in the world, and the
nuclearization of Iran, which was not in the cards.

PG: OK. [Fatah] was
fully armed with American munitions, they were armed to the teeth, FATAH. They
didn’t fight, they gave them, HAMAS , …..

BY: Yes, because I don’t
believe there is such a big difference in fact between FATAH and HAMAS…

PG: and HAMAS…..

BY: …..there is a difference between the
leadership because each one wants to control, to have the power.


BY: But with the idea (?) I don’t think there is much difference
because when FATAH, when FATAH had all the power with Arafat, Arafat was not the
man of peace. He wanted peace, but without Israel.

PG: He never wanted
peace. Without Israel, it would’ve been, "Next, next, next".

BY: No,
without Israel! Peace without Israel. That means that Palestine would be from
the Jordan to the Mediterranean….

PG: Right.

BY: …and Israel
would have disappeared, and this is peace.


BY: Yes, of course, because
there is no peace with jihad
. I think that the way to defeat jihad, because
jihad is not only military. It is a war, a military war, which is based on an
ideology, so….like Communism, like Nazism, you have an ideology, a strategy.

You have to, in order to defeat jihad, you have to know what is the ideology and
this strategy in order to anticipate their movement also. But how us in the West
can we defeat jihad, by learning what it means, what is the ideology behind it.
So we don’t consider that each action is separated from the previous act or the
following act, but it is a chain of actions

PG: And it’s not
presented that way in the media.

BY: ….which is always, which is always
set in an ideological pattern. Once we see this pattern, we can react to
reality, but otherwise if we continue to obliterate the reality, to deny the
reality, we’ll never have an impact on this reality. And I want to say that we
can win this war with the Muslims. With the Muslims. Because it is for the
Muslims to defeat the ideology of jihad, because us, we canno
t. Us, we cannot
change the interpretation of the Islamic text.

PG: But who can? You’re
not allowed!

BY: The Muslims have to do this.

PG: But they’re not
allowed, it’s specifically written in the Qu’ran that you cannot alter a word,
Bat .

BY: But they have many bright Muslims, many open-minded
Muslims who are working on this problem.

PG: Oh yes?

BY: Yes,
absolutely, and we have to encourage them because not only they will save the
peace of the world, but they will save their own population, the Muslim
population, and also the Muslim religion by bringing it to a new interpretation
of the text, because Muslims are over a billion persons.

PG: A billion

BY: Yes, spread all over the Earth. It is not like the German.
You defeat a nation. And the Nazis was an ideology also, but it was like Islam,
a religion. These have different perspective, different…um, how do you say in
English?….different deepness. It is ???, it is theological, it relates to the
mind, to the spirit, how the individual relates to his god, to his life, to his
destiny, to the meaning of his life and destiny, it is a very important element.
So the Muslims, the Muslim intelligentsia, must examine all those aspects in
order to save what they can save of Islam for the modern time, for this
century.   (50:04)  They have to make it more ???, more open to the people, a
different modern theology which will, considered what has been…which will
contextualize some text in the Qu’ran. For instance the cutting of the hand, the
feet, so all the killing of the infidel,

PG: The

BY: Yes, all those things. So they have to contextualize
all ??? like Christians and Jews have done for their own religions. So, Muslims
have to do it for their own religion, and I’m sure that they can do it, but it’s
only that they don’t come together, they don’t…..they’re not well organized.
They don’t organize all of the possibilities, the ??? possibilities in the
Muslim world. Because I know so many wonderful Muslims, like Noni Darwish

PG: Yeah, but Noni, yes, please, but

BY: There are so many in Universities…..

PG: They’re


So the hate means
also the hate against the West. And because Europe has allowed this, and not
only has allowed that to go on, but has encouraged it, because of it’s own
anti-Semitism and hate against Israel, now it is faced with an even greater
hate, against Europe and the West. We have to face this hate, we have to
understand it, we have to fight it. But we have at the same time to encourage
and this is what I think Bush is doing with Pakistan and with Egypt because the
governments of those countries which are friendly to the West and which have
done nothing to stop this hate against the West, these governments are now in
danger of collapsing and being replaced by the radicals. So what Bush is trying
to do is to maintain at least this possible alliance because if all those
countries become controlled by Al Qaeda and a caliphate, this is what they want
to do, a caliphate will be dominant over all those countries. We shall really
have to face a world jihad because it would be all the Muslim countries
. First
of all, a great immigration here, because not all the Muslims…a lot of Muslims
will run away from those countries controlled by Al Qaeda. Second, we won’t know
what to do, because….how to face this immigration of millions and then we
shall also have to face the problem of global terrorism, which exists already
but which can become much worse.

So what Bush is trying to do, first of
all for the Party, to keep the power for the Republican Party, because it is the
strong party, because the Democratic Party will follow the European …path,
which will have been a disaster…


BY: Yes, yes, and we have also now to examine the entrance of Turkey in Europe, and…

PG: What are your thoughts on that?

BY: Well, I think it would be the end of Europe, the Europe we know. This certainly, because Turkey is going toward Islamisation. There is of course a class, an elitist class in Turkey which is very modern, very Europeanized, and very smart and brilliant. But this class existed also in Iran, in the time of the Shah, and then suddenly it disappeared!


PG: For how long.


BY: Anyway, for Bush….

PG: Yeah, what should he be doing?

BY: His position is to keep the…to prevent the Democratic Party to take over, because this would be the multi-lateral policy that has led Europe to its destruction. Then, to take care of..with its foreign policy to keep as much as possible its alliance, and maintain these powers who are friendly to the West and who are crumbling and to maintain them so that Al Qaeda doesn’t take over. Egypt, Jordan, and other countries. So…because if this would come in it would be very difficult for Israel.

In America we have serious problems with that too. Actually, just this past week, it was voted down, the "Fairness Doctrine". Now the "Fairness Doctrine" was one thing. It was to stop talk radio. You know, in America that’s the only place where people can really listen because the mainstream media is owned and is part and parcel with the left wing. I mean, it’s the Democratic Party’s organ for propaganda. You have Fox News, the problem with Fox is that it’s the only one. They’re not so Conservative, but everybody else is so incredibly lefty that Fox is, "EHH!", they want to kill it. So they wanted to make a "Fairness Doctrine", not for broadcast, just for radio. But what I’m trying to point out is that there are forces, evil forces at work here, and it’s very frightening.

This whole pull-out of Iraq, you know that would be the worst thing. I mean, it would spin out of control, it would be mass slaughter. I don’t know what good would come of it, it would become a haven for Al Qaeda.


BY: Some are afraid, others take enormous risks to do it. So we realize that we are in a war of ideas because also like the…..for instance Theo van Gogh in Holland, also what happened in France, also in Denmark, people are aggress(ive) because of their ideas and in Europe there is a fight to impose the freedom of speech, which is written, and freedom of opinion, which is written in our European Constitution. It is a right that we have to safeguard



PG: One last question I need to talk to you about; Olmert.

BY: Yeah, it is a disastrous government.


BY: Yes, it is a nightmare, it is a….there was the
corruption, there is the scandal, there is the failure, the incompetency, but
what do you want? The Israeli people, they have elected this government, and I
repeat what the bright, intellectual….intellectual Israelis have said, it is
this government, it reflects the Israeli people. Unfortunately, the Israelis of
today are not the Israelis who built up the country. They are not the same, it
is not the same generation, it is not…there are so many, in Israel, so many

PG:  Yeah!

BY: So much self-hatred, so much
nepotism, so much….

PG: I call them "Jewicidals".

BY: Yes, so
much love of materialism, so it is not hte same idealist people who built up the
country. They are not worthy of their ancestors.

PG: No, they’re not
worthy of their ancestors.

BY: No. They have elected what they are, their
own image. They have to change, if they have to change, to go back to their
roots, to the signification of Israel in the history of the world because Israel
is a very small country!

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