This quote pretty much sums it up;
“When people decry civilian deaths caused by the U.S. government, they’re aiding propaganda efforts. In sharp contrast, when civilian deaths are caused by bombers who hate America, the perpetrators are evil and those deaths are tragedies.

When they put bombs in cars and kill people, they’re uncivilized killers. When we put bombs on missiles and kill people, we’re upholding civilized values. When they kill, they’re terrorists. When we kill, we’re striking against terror.”

I’ve never understood the hard on that those clowns on the left have for PMCs. Can someone explain to me what is terribly wrong with the employment of contractors to lighten the load to the military and to provide special services.

I think the problem is ignorance and media sensationalism. People see movies like Blood Diamond and of course automaticly think they are an accurate depiction.

I actually worked for the PMC Dyncorp International for a year back in 2000 and found them to be a decent company to work for. There was certainly nothing sinister about them. It’s not like they were Executive Outcomes or something….
I’ll probably look into PMC employment again after I retire from my current career in another seven years.

Posted by fiscal_conservative
2010-03-15 08:45:43

100% trolling by a sock puppet too cowardly to admitt he is Groundhog.

Posted by fiscal_conservative
2010-03-15 08:45:43

Piglet, you are most welcome to leave this country and join the other side. That would make it much easier to take you out, saving this planet from some pothead loser.

I’ll even buy your plane ticket.

When they put bombs in cars and kill people, they’re uncivilized killers. When we put bombs on missiles and kill people, we’re upholding civilized values. When they kill, they’re terrorists. When we kill, we’re striking against terror.”
Posted by fiscal_conservative
2010-03-15 08:45:43

Behold the supporter of terrorists. You and Ko$ have something in common.

When they put bombs in cars and kill people, they’re uncivilized killers. When we put bombs on missiles and kill people, we’re upholding civilized values. When they kill, they’re terrorists. When we kill, we’re striking against terror.”
Posted by fiscal_conservative 2010-03-15 08:45:43

“When they put bombs in cars and kill peoplecivilians, they’re uncivilized killers. When we put bombs on missiles and kill peoplethose terrorists, we’re upholding civilized values.”

Fixed that for you, LIBERAL!

Posted by fiscal_conservative
2010-03-15 08:45:43

There is no point in even trying to talk you out of your commie anti war bullshit.

“When they kill, they’re terrorists. When we kill, we’re striking against terror.”

When they put on uniforms, abide by the rules of warfare, and stop hiding behing women and children, we can have a conversation about their civility.

Until then, even the Geneva Convention says they deserve no better than summary execution.

I don’t see how the quote I posted contradicted anything that you folks are echoing. You may disagree with the semantics.

Stain, your argument fails. Get your head out of your, well you know. Surely you don’t believe their have been no civilian casualties due to American bombing campaigns. If you do, then that would explain a lot.

Dick, I see you intentionally left off the first part of the quote….I wonder why?

Surely you don’t believe their have been no civilian casualties due to American bombing campaigns. If you do, then that would explain a lot.

Posted by fiscal_conservative 2010-03-15 09:40:21

That is not the point and you know it, LIBERAL!

The terrorists you love and defend deliberately target civilians, and then hide amongst women and children like the cowards that they are. We do everything we can, including putting American lives at risk, to avoid civilian casualties.

And the number of civilians killed by Americans is infinitisimal to the number of civilians killed by those you love.

The fact that the terrorists are such cowards is obviously why you are so drawn to their cause.

I admittedly don’t know the minutae of the law when it comes to military and civilian overlap for intelligence gathering, but as long as the contractors aren’t acting as hired assassins I don’t have a philosophical problem with it.

A lot of the legitimate greifs other countries have with the United States comes from CIA paramilitary operations. The US military has an astounding success rate, and most of the places it has gone are today peaceful allies. On the other hand, both botched and successful covert operations have damaged our reputation and interests. I’m not saying that covert intelligence gathering is not important (which it obviously is), but when it comes time to pull the trigger or use force to create a favorable political outcome, our military should be the ones doing it.

Stain,
“We do everything we can.” I know you are not claiming you have made any efforts to do anything but sit in front a computer in your Mom’s basement. You are a pathetic coward Stain.

tblrk2006- so communist are anti war? “your commie anti war bullshit.”

Mike_M- “When they put on uniforms, abide by the rules of warfare” scroll up on RWN and tell me about this article: Private Contracters Tracking And Killing “Militants” Don’t make me call out a hypocrite.

I know you are not claiming you have made any efforts to do anything but sit in front a computer in your Mom’s basement. You are a pathetic coward Stain.

Posted by fiscal_conservative 2010-03-15 09:58:02

If you are going for Dumbass Troll of the Year, I have to tell you that this pathetic attempt of mischaracterize what we say is infantile.

I notice that you are unable to counter what I said and simply resort to personal insults. It is a FACT that the US Military tries to avoid cilivian casualties and it is a FACT that the terrorists you support target civilians.

And all your cowardly whining will not change that!

Stain, I would never try to take your award, “If you are going for Dumbass Troll of the Year.” You are secure in your position. It is good that you don’t lower yourself to “simply resort to personal insults.” Stain, you have to be a plant from the left, because no one can be that stupid and still be able to breathe.

It is good that you don’t lower yourself to “simply resort to personal insults.”
Posted by fiscal_conservative 2010-03-15 10:14:27

Then allow me to explain the difference in the two of us. I counter your argument about civilian casualties in war, THEN I insulted you. You, on the other hand, were unable to counter my post, so you simply ignored the post and went straight to insults. But your point is taken, lets put insults aside.

America works to avoid civilian casualties, but they happen in war. The terrorists deliberately target civilian populations and intentionally hide amongst women and children in an attempt increase civilian casualties.

Now, are you able to dispute those facts?

We all need to stop arguing and instead look to see how this is George Bush’s fault.

Stain,
“We do everything we can.” I know you are not claiming you have made any efforts to do anything but sit in front a computer in your Mom’s basement. You are a pathetic coward Stain.

WOW talk baout an idiot’s response to a pretty clear, statement. and a personal attack on top of it. Nex thing you know You’ll act like a complete MORON.

tblrk2006- so communist are anti war? “your commie anti war bullshit.”

And here it is!!!! FC being a COMPLETE MORON!!!!!!!!!!!! So you can’t read that implied AND between commie AND anti-war???? Are you THREE?????????

Mike_M- “When they put on uniforms, abide by the rules of warfare” scroll up on RWN and tell me about this article: Private Contracters Tracking And Killing “Militants” Don’t make me call out a hypocrite.
Posted by fiscal_conservative
2010-03-15 09:58:02

UH civilian contractors where UNIFORMS or other accepted identifiers so as not to be taken for spies and non-uniformed combatants, MORON. They do so in accordance with the Geneva Conventions as legal operatives of whatever govt hired them.

Guys, guys, guys. Let’s ignore the idiotic rantings of the childish little troll that is trying to enrage us by attempting to draw a comparison between the terrorists who target target innocents on purpose as a matter of course and legitimate militaries who regretably sometimes kill them on accident. I suspect that he’s just making this statement in an attempt to anger us, but if by chance he actually believes it, then he’s a morally bankrupt piece of shit that does not deserve our time.

Anyway, getting back to the topic at hand:

Upon reflection it seems to me natural that leftists would hate PMCs. After all they combine two of the things that the left hates: the military and free market capitalism. It it therefore any wonder they hate these organizations?

It is good that you don’t lower yourself to “simply resort to personal insults.”

Once again, piglet exposes himself as a hypocrite. I’m sure he’s exposed himself in other ways but that’s for another discussion.

Piglet whines about “personal insults” but his very first response to Stan is an insult as “Stain” here:

Posted by fiscal_conservative
2010-03-15 09:40:21

Then he continues to bitch and whine indirectly on how how we kill his comrades.

The truth is, if we do something then innocent people die but if we do not do anything then innocent people still die. Rather than directing his “peaceful” anger at those who are committing the atrocities, piglet sits on his mommy’s computer and bitches, once again, on how the U.S. is the evil empire.

Perhaps, piglet, if you’re so angry over the deaths of innocent people then feel free to protest against radical Muslims who claim that killing people is virtuous. Oh, that’s right, radical Muslims are a protected class so anybody who criticizes them are labeled as ‘Islamophobes.’

I suspect that he’s just making this statement in an attempt to anger us, but if by chance he actually believes it, then he’s a morally bankrupt piece of shit that does not deserve our time.
Posted by Hack-the-Rogue 2010-03-15 10:23:24

Most of the Liberals on this board are so conditioned to oppose anything and everything even remotely Conservative that they even leap into a defense of terrorists, so long as it is in oppostion to a group Conservatives support, like the US Military.

I am fairly sure Fiscal_Liberal means what he says. There are many like him in this world. Daniel Pearl’s father said that President Bush murdered his son, but later said the terrorists that slowly sawed his head off only made a mistake because they “…killed their best friend”.

How sad that there are people in this world that hate so much!

“When they put on uniforms, abide by the rules of warfare” scroll up on RWN and tell me about this article: Private Contracters Tracking And Killing “Militants”

Did you read the article? Of course not.

Despite the best efforts of the NYT to obfuscate and plant suggestions, there’s no evidence that these contractors actually ever killed anybody.

Try again when you have a fact or a clue.

Stain,
“You, on the other hand, were unable to counter my post”
What you call countering my argument, I would call talking in platitudes and generalities. Give me something to counter, and if necessary I will offer a counter argument.

I will say, what I have always said. This is not a fight against a country, it is a fight against an ideology.

I will say, what I have always said. This is not a fight against a country, it is a fight against an ideology.
Posted by fiscal_conservative 2010-03-15 10:37:49

Good to see that you are unable to have a civilized conversation, Liberal. Continue to glorify the terrorists, i’m sure that will mean so much to them and will protect you and your family from any harm.

Oh, and you may want to look up the definition of platitudes and generalities. As as example of those two things, refer to this post…
When they put bombs in cars and kill people, they’re uncivilized killers. When we put bombs on missiles and kill people, we’re upholding civilized values. When they kill, they’re terrorists. When we kill, we’re striking against terror.”
Posted by fiscal_conservative 2010-03-15 08:45:43

Posted by fiscal_conservative
2010-03-15 10:37:49

MOORn STFU, you have lost all credibility on this thread, do us all a favor, and MOVE-ON.ORG

Mike_M- “When they put on uniforms, abide by the rules of warfare” scroll up on RWN and tell me about this article: Private Contracters Tracking And Killing “Militants” Don’t make me call out a hypocrite.
Posted by fiscal_conservative
2010-03-15 09:58:02

So your upset that your terrorist buddies dont deserve 100% attention from our armed forces? Until they put on a uniform and abide by the rules we do, nobody here cares how they are killed.

This is not a fight against a country, it is a fight against an ideology.
Posted by fiscal_conservative
2010-03-15 10:37:49

You’re absolutely right fecal_conservative.

We’re fighting for the safety and security of this country while you’re fighting to support a death cult that hates gays, atheists, women, etc.

We’ve already known who you really support but I put this out for those who are new to RWN.

Remember, fecal_conservative = hogground

“It is generally considered illegal for the military to hire contractors to act as covert spies.”

I don’t think this statement is true. I’m not familiar with any statute that prevents an intelligence agency from hiring contractors for intellegence gathering purposes. It is illegal to assassinate foreign leaders, but based on the article the contractors aren’t even engaged in direct action against the insurgents.

As far as the whole “Law of Land Warfare” thread goes – the insurgents do not abide by the Geneva Convention or the Law of Land Warfare – so US forces would be justified under international law in taking any action necessary to effectively prosecute war against them. Including dealing with combatants fighting out of uniform the way EVERY POWER in World War 2 did – standing them up against the nearest wall and shooting them. The insurgents have no rights under US or international law. It’s too bad the Chain of Command won’t put out decisive guidance ratifying that so we could increase our production of dead insurgents.

The US Constitution specifically permits congress to issue “Letters of Marque” which are documents permitting legal piracy at sea, in essence. It enables the Senate to give private citizens limited military power to fight enemies of the US.

bthewool
2010-03-15 10:22:46
“And here it is!!!! FC being a COMPLETE MORON!!!!!!!!!!!! So you can’t read that implied AND between commie AND anti-war???? Are you THREE?????????”

No, I am not three. That is about all I could get out of that collage of words. I do like this one:
“UH civilian contractors where UNIFORMS”
Enough about the wool.

“while you’re fighting to support a death cult that hates gays, atheists, women, etc.” Posted by Kingfisher
2010-03-15 10:49:42
No one mentioned Social Conservatives.

“Continue to glorify the terrorists” at what point did anything I say support or glorify terrorists? As a group you have reinforced the original quote I posted. They weren’t my words, but they served the purpose. It is obvious to everyone but a few fringe extremist here that this is a perspective. You see it from your perspective, and the family members of innocent dead civilians who were in the wrong place at the wrong time see it from a different perspective. Do you ever ask yourself why, in this country, when we are trying to apprehend or stop criminals in densely populated areas we don’t use bombs?

Posted by fiscal_conservative
2010-03-15 14:48:24

So what is your beef? You dont want contractors performing spy duties?….b/c thats all it says. Out of what fear?

Do you ever ask yourself why, in this country, when we are trying to apprehend or stop criminals in densely populated areas we don’t use bombs?
Posted by fiscal_conservative 2010-03-15 14:48:24

No, no one has asked that question, because no one here is that stupid, Liberal.

You can’t tell the difference between civilians accidentally killed in battle and civilians killed because they were specifically targeted. Therefore, it is no surprise that you cannot tell the difference between war and law enforcement.

Posted by fiscal_conservative
2010-03-15 14:48:24

OOO I typed where instead of wear and you still didn’t understand the message, so if you’re not three, then you must be no older than FIVE.

Do you ever ask yourself why, in this country, when we are trying to apprehend or stop criminals in densely populated areas we don’t use bombs?

Did you ever ask yourself why we didn’t try to arrest German soldiers in Paris during WWII instead using bombs?? They are terrorists, LIBERAL, not criminals, they are using bombs and guns to kill soldiers and innocents, they laugh at death let alone the possibility of ‘arrest!’

It is obvious to everyone but a few fringe extremist here that this is a perspective.
Posted by fiscal_conservative 2010-03-15 14:48:24

WRONG, LIBERAL. It isn’t prespective, it is moral equivalance.

Do you ever ask yourself why, in this country, when we are trying to apprehend or stop criminals in densely populated areas we don’t use bombs?
Posted by fecal_conservative
2010-03-15 14:48:24

Because the answer is obvious to an individual with an IQ over three.

That’s why you’re the only idiot to ever bother asking that question.

“Continue to glorify the terrorists” at what point did anything I say support or glorify terrorists?

You implied it with your constant excuses and deflections to specified questions.

If you were REALLY interested in saving innocent lives you would also be concerned about the innocent lives taken at the hands of the terrorists. Up until now, you’ve only been concerned about the innocents at risk from the United States.

People who truly care about human life look at the big picture. Your only interest here is to criticize the U.S. in any way possible. Therefore, the only logical conclusion is that you glorify the terrorists.

“We are extremely saddened by this tragic loss of innocent lives,” General McChrystal said in the video. “I have made it clear to our forces that we are here to protect the Afghan people. I pledge to strengthen our efforts to regain your trust to build a brighter future for all Afghans.”

That doesn’t sound like the General is using the moral equivalance argument. It is hard to use that argument when referring to dead civilians not engaged in combat. Oh my Fish! is he not “concerned about the innocent lives taken at the hands of the terrorists.” The General seems to be echoing what I have been saying. He must be a left wing loon, huh?

“Your only interest here is to criticize the U.S.” That is our job as patriotic citizens, I agree. The Taliban or AQ doesn’t represent the U.S. citizenry, but the U.S. military does. Our boys on the ground do as they are told and do an exceptional job. My issues are with the high ranking officers who are making decisions based on information provided to them by the private sector companies operating for profit, and conflict provides more profit.

Unfortunately, we wouldn’t get much useful intel without those private contractors. It’s hard to beat eyes on (actionable) intel, but getting it is inherently risky. The chain of command probably would not put it like this, but they’d rather see dead contractors than dead troops. I haven’t seen any credible published figures of the number of contractors killed in the War on Terror, but you can google troop casualties and get accurate counts. Also, every team of contractors conducting Reconnaissance, Surveillance and Targeting frees up a SpecOps team to conduct Direct Action (killing bad guys).

Domestic intelligence agencies capacity to collect HUMINT has been shackled by legislation and the fear of case officers being left out to dry if an asset goes off the reservation (or if they make a decision their command decides they need to deny). These contractors are filling, at great personal risk, roles which are more properly the province of the active military or intelligence agencies. I don’t believe anything they’re being asked to do is a violation of any US law. It is a sad state of affairs that the military and our intelligence agencies are at the point where they need contractors to do this stuff.