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June 28, 2010
John Hawkins Why I Denied David Frum’s Website A Spot In The Blogads Conservative Hive
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It's no surprise that a guy like David Frum would be defending Dave Weigel, who resigned from the WAPO after his private comments mocking conservatives went public and proved exactly what conservatives have been saying all along -- that he is hostile to the right and had no business writing a blog called  "Inside the conservative movement and Republican Party." In other words, we have a guy who doesn't like the conservative movement or the Republican Party, being billed as a real Republican, and writing an "Inside the conservative movement and Republican Party" column from the outside.

That's a big pet peeve of mine about the mainstream media -- but, more on that in  a  moment. For now, let's circle back to Frum's comments near the end of his piece,

4) Weigel’s private comments confirm what is obvious from his writing: he is not a member and supporter of the conservative movement. He’s a critical but knowledgeable outsider. Some see that as a disqualification for his job as a writer. Some even suggest that the only way to cover conservatism “fairly” would be to hire a committed conservative. Thus blogger John Hawkins:
Here we have a leftward leaning Libertarian writing a column called ”Inside the conservative movement and Republican Party with Dave Weigel.” Except Weigel isn’t a conservative, he isn’t a Republican, and he relentlessly runs down Republicans and the conservative movement.

You may say: Well who cares what John Hawkins think? Reasonable point – except that Hawkins is the person entrusted by Google to determine who may join the conservative blogads cloud. (Disclosure: He decided that FrumForum could not participate. We no longer qualified as conservatives because we had criticized other conservatives, particularly Rush Limbaugh.)

Ah, I've been waiting for this.

You see, I don't work for Blogads (or Google. Not sure where that came from), but I do indeed run the Blogads Conservative Hive (It's  a great place to buy conservative ads).

In May, someone representing Frum's blog wrote me (I don't see the point of dragging his name into it), noted that FrumForum had joined Blogads, and asked to be included in the Hive.

Now, as a general rule, I try to be very open minded about who gets into the Blogads Conservative Hive. If they're generally friendly to conservatives and seem to have a mostly conservative audience, I don't mind having them on board. So, aside from conservative blogs, there are Libertarian blogs in the Hive and there are blogs I'd call center-right. It goes without saying that there are plenty of issues where members of the Hive, myself included, don't see eye-to-eye.

Still, to the best of my recollection, there have only been two bloggers ever denied a spot in the Blogads Conservative Hive for ideological reasons. One of them was Charles Johnson from Little Green Footballs whom, ironically, I sponsored at Blogads and invited to the Hive, and then later booted from the Hive after his blog went completely off the rails to the Left. In that case, I didn't even get to discuss it with Charles because my emails bounced (I assumed he blocked them -- yes, I've been told he does that sometimes)...although I really tend to doubt that he cared since I'm undoubtedly just conservative creep #8,642 to him at this point.

The other blog denied entry into the Blogads Conservative Hive for ideological reasons was FrumForum.

I did at least try to be nice about it. Here's the initial response I sent:
I'm afraid that I don't consider FrumForum to be a conservative website, so I'm going to have to decline to add you to the conservative hive. Still, there are other hives and if you check around, you'll probably find one that FrumForum fits in better with.

Nice enough, right? A couple of days later, I got this response back with David Frum cc'd on the email,
John,

I shared your e-mail refusal to add FrumForum.com to the Blogads advertising hive because you don’t consider it conservative to David and he said, “.. You may tell him from me that I consider this decision a fascinating news story in its own right.”

I ask that you please reconsider the add. I have copied David on this message should you like to explain your decision directly.

As regular readers of RWN have probably guessed, I didn't like the pretentious tone there or the implied threat. You see, David Frum has played this little game before. When AEI sacked him from his $100,000 year gig that he never showed up for, he went boo-hooing to the Politico,
David Frum told us last night that he believes his axing from his $100,000-a-year “resident scholar” gig at the conservative American Enterprise Institute was related to DONOR PRESSURE following his viral blog post arguing Republicans had suffered a devastating, generational “Waterloo” in their loss to President Obama on health reform. “There's a lot about the story I don't really understand,” Frum said from his iPhone. “But the core of the story is the kind of economic pressure that intellectual conservatives are under. AEI represents the best of the conservative world. [AEI President] Arthur Brooks is a brilliant man, and his books are fantastic. But the elite isn’t leading anymore. It’s trapped. Partly because of the desperate economic situation in the country, what were once the leading institutions of conservatism are constrained. I think Arthur took no pleasure in this. I think he was embarrassed. I think he would have avoided it if he possibly could, but he couldn't.”

We talked at length afterward with an AEI official in an effort to get a specific response to Frum’s charge. ...Frum, who will be 50 in June, had been on the payroll since leaving the Bush White House in 2003. He acknowledges he was very seldom at the office. But he maintains he developed and spread conservative ideas -- AEI’s stated goal -- with the 300,000 words a year that he writes for his blog, FrumForum.com; his weekly columns for CNN.com, The Week, and the National Post of Canada; his biweekly offerings for TIME and American Public Media’s “Marketplace”; and his three TV and three radio appearances in a typical week. He also landed Canadian Finance Minister James Flaherty for an AEI retreat last month that included donors. Frum tells us that regardless of his dismay with the party, he’ll stay registered GOP.

Here was my response to that at the time and the sentiment still stands,
Let's be honest: there are probably a hundred people just as qualified as Frum for that cushy gig at AEI and with the rest of them, you're not going to have to wonder if they'll "stay registered GOP."

Furthermore, the whole idea that conservatives aren't supposed to get down on people like Frum, Meghan McCain, Kathleen Parker, David Brooks, etc., etc., is insulting. At least liberals have the chops to let everyone know that they despise conservatives. These people pretend to be on our side, undercut us at every opportunity because they think it's good for their career, and then whine if they get any blowback for it. If these people want to make a career out of cutting off conservatives at the knees for the amusement of the Left, I don't see any reason why conservatives should go along with it or worse yet, hand them cherry $100,000 jobs on a silver platter for the privilege of being insulted.

So, after reading that, you know how I feel about people like Frum. You also know that I didn't like his little implied threat. Now, let me repost the email followed by my response to Frum's representative -- and,  yes, Frum was cc'd on my response:
From Frum's representative:

John,

I shared your e-mail refusal to add FrumForum.com to the Blogads advertising hive because you don’t consider it conservative to David and he said, “.. You may tell him from me that I consider this decision a fascinating news story in its own right.”

I ask that you please reconsider the add. I have copied David on this message should you like to explain your decision directly.
From me:

I used to like and respect David Frum. Then, I guess he decided being a small fish in a big conservative pond wasn't good enough for him. That's when it appears to me that he made a business decision to trash conservatives for the amusement of the Left. Whatever his motives may be, that's his decision.

But, if that's what he wants to be known for, I'm certainly not going to do anything to help him stick a shiv deeper in the back of people who believe the things that I do. Maybe some people are willing to turn a blind eye because they know and like David personally, but I'm not his friend, I genuinely don't consider him to be a conservative or even someone who's friendly to the conservative movement, and I'm not willing to give him a pass for the way he behaves.

So, if you or David think it's a "fascinating news story in its own right,” knock yourself out. Maybe David can write about it the next time he sneers at conservatives for Newsweek.

You may tell David that from me.

Guys like Frum want to have it both ways. Being a "Republican / conservative" who tells liberals what they want to hear about the Right is a career niche -- and it can pay big dividends. Note all the places that Frum said he appears in that AEI related article,
His weekly columns for CNN.com, The Week, and the National Post of Canada; his biweekly offerings for TIME and American Public Media’s “Marketplace”; and his three TV and three radio appearances in a typical week.

Yet, according to Alexa, even I have not just one, but TWO websites that get more traffic than Frumforum.

Right Wing News: Alexa Traffic Rank: 48,922
Linkiest: Alexa Traffic Rank: 57,054
FrumForum: Alexa Traffic Rank: 69,535

So despite all the tongue baths from the mainstream media, Frum still can't attract and hold an audience even as big as mine -- and honestly, I'm small potatoes compared to some of the bigger bloggers out there.

That begs a question: why is David Frum getting a column at CNN? How is it that Time has a guy like this writing for them? What's the purpose of putting a guy like Frum on TV as opposed to all the genuine conservatives who dwarf his traffic and can obviously draw a bigger crowd?

Let's say you don't like my material -- well, I'm a peon compared to Ed Morrissey & Allah at Hot Air. Ace from Ace of Spades HQ has proven he can draw and hold a big audience. Jim Hoft at Gateway Pundit does phenomenal work and probably draws and holds 4 readers a day for every one Frum has. How come those guys aren't writing for CNN? Where's their column at Time? Where's their blog on the Washington Post explaining the conservative movement?

There's an easy answer to that question: the mainstream media loves "conservatives" and "Republicans" who will trash whomever the Left hates most. So, if you're willing to talk about how Sarah Palin is a hick, Glenn Beck is a crank, Rush Limbaugh is bad for the country, and the Tea Party is bad for democracy, the mainstream media will reward you  --  and because conservatives pride themselves on being open minded, they'll all too often give you a pass for your atrocious behavior -- especially since the MSM doesn't insist you play their game all the time. As long as you're willing to say what they want about the people they hate the most, they'll reward you with a cover story at Newsweek and then in your off time, you can churn out a few articles to point gullible conservatives towards while you're trying to guilt them into taking you seriously by crying "epistemic closure!"

This is what David Frum does for a living -- and don't think he doesn't know it. Even the people who write for him know it. I ran into someone who writes for his blog at an event once. He was extremely defensive about writing for them. I must have heard him tell at least three people, myself included, something akin to, "I write for FrumForum, but please don't hold that against me."

Long story short, everybody has to make a living. But, I'm not interested in helping people like Frum play this little game where they try to cripple conservatives publicly while coming around on the back end to milk us for money. If Frum wants to be a dancing monkey for the Left, let them come up with the money to pay for the tune.
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Note: Comments and Trackbacks for this entry were closed as of July 05, 2010
  • edarrell
    It's true: Conservatives eat their young.
  • Bcorcoran
    "In other words, we have a guy who doesn't like the conservative movement or the Republican Party, being billed as a real Republican, and writing an "Inside the conservative movement and Republican Party" column from the outside"

    It makes about as much sense as having the same kind of guy being the GOP presidential nominee.

    I don't usually read Frum but on the few occasions that I have, I got the sense that he would like to bring the elitist smug attitude of the leftist pseudo-intellectuals to conservatives. Not happening! The conservative movement runs on facts not smug!
  • Early Music AJ
    ""There's an easy answer to that question: the mainstream media loves "conservatives" and "Republicans" who will trash whomever the Left hates most. "" Right on! Thank you for standing up to that creep.
  • htownmark
    yep, keep circling the wagons and protecting your friends from the "shiv" of actual debate with smart people like David Frum.

    Pathetic.
  • beagleboy
    In Frum's defense there's always his original discovery of the Ten Commandments smeared over the WSJ opinion page for endless years.
  • Ronval912
    What dreck. Pee - yew.
  • Michaelspacek
    Umm... yeah. What TCartwright said. You people attacking Frum in this forum are not conservatives. You're partisans. Big difference.
  • Mickey Dugan
    Thank you John, for making our tent smaller and smaller and smaller. Pretty soon, we'll purge most everybody, and it'll just be you and Larry Craig.

    Don't say you wuzn't warned.
  • Nara_0415
    Your criticism of Frum amounts to, "He is overrated, entitled and didactic" and "I am jealous that he has CNN column"

    In other words, your points are mostly personal and superficial and reveal very little understanding of who Frum is and what he believes.

    Your entire point rests on one simple assumption, stating only in an old email, "I'm afraid that I don't consider FrumForum to be a conservative website, so I'm going to have to decline to add you to the conservative hive."

    Yet, you fail to provide any evidence of why FrumForum is NOT a conservative website and Frum is no longer a conservative writer.

    Yes, Frum has been critical of the style and political strategy of the Tea Party and Rand Paul and other conservatives.

    But just take a look at his most recent CNN.com columns (cross-posted at FrumForum):

    - Getting off oil easily is a fantasy
    - "Stop the hypocrisy about Israel"
    - Is Obama leading, or ducking blame?

    - "Attack on cartoonist a threat to us all"

    - "Ending illegal immigration benefits economy"

    He is clearly engaged with conservative policy ideas and principles. You need to stop the blogosphere groupthink and do some actual research.
  • ScottInAL
    when I read THIS - "and because conservatives pride themselves on being open minded, they'll all too often give you a pass for your atrocious behavior"

    I spewed my water onto my keyboard. Yeah, David Frum is too liberal for you. Open minded that.
  • BSR
    Yeah, he was Bush's speachwriter, but now that he disagrees on a few point's he is no longer a republican.

    Your like some mindless cadre in the Chinese cultural revolution, I don't think you even see how crazy you are.
  • Grovemont11
    Why is David Frum a bigger name than you and other bloggers?

    Easy, let me count the ways:

    - He has been an active conservative intellectual since the early 1980's, when William F. Buckley first took a liking to his stuff. He first appeared in National Review in 1982.

    - Then, Frum worked for the Opinions page of the Wall Street Journal for several years, influencing conservative ideas on a daily basis.

    - Then he was a columnist at Forbes, where thousands upon thousands of people read him.

    - He has written several well-received books, including the influential "Dead Right," which Buckley and other loved.

    - He was a speechwriter in the Bush White House, internally influencing both domestic and foreign policy.

    - He coined one of the most famous phrases in foreign policy since "the end of history": "axis of evil."

    In short, he has spent DECADES INFLUENCING AND HELPING SHAPE CONSERVATIVE THINKING AND POLICY.

    O, gee, I wonder why he was an AEI fellow? I wonder he is on CNN.

    I'll start reading your stupid little website when have more important measures of your success than Alexa.com rankings!!
  • Serr8d
    All of your enumerated points were good things, mostly, that happened far away in the past. We tip our hats to Mr. Frum's good deeds, such as they were.

    But things have changed remarkably since Reagan's days, since Buckley lived and died. We've been dragged as far left as was at Buckley's time unimaginable, and going forward we will find it very difficult to stay intact as a Republic. Some think it's only a matter of time before this Republic ends, in an economic flameout that can be blamed on both Republicans and Democrats alike.

    To counter today's far-left political climate, we don't need any more center-right folk like Mr. Frum. We need Rush Limbaugh and Tea Partyers. We need OUTLAW!, we need strong-speaking sorts who aren't afraid to draw a line and say, "This you will not cross".

    Mr. Frum is not that sort of person. He's a man of the past, who with his excessive give and little take, shares some of the blame for where we find ourselves now: drawn and quartered farther Left than ever before.

    Let Frum go. For the sake of the Republic.
  • TCartwright72
    Hawkins epitomizes the small-minded, belligerent, loudmouth, groupthink that is crippling the Republican party. His analysis of Frum's motivation (and K. Parker's and the rest) is so far off-base as to be completely delusional. If we Republicans allow Hawkins & Co. to be our spokesmen, they will lead the party straight to a 1964-style defeat in 2012. I could even deal with that if they had half of Barry Goldwater's class or intellect. Oh, and the Tea Party isn't going to save us either. Don't believe their nonsense about how it's some kind of massive social movement. It's the same clutch of John Birchers, Ayn Randers, and black helicopter wackos that are always lurking in the wings. Frum's not perfect by a long shot, but if the Republican Party doesn't quit indulging in libertarian fantasties and come up with some credible solutions to the problems facing America, we are going to be in the wilderness for a very, very long time.
  • Jennifer
    Charles Johnson is that you? See you in November.
  • Bravo, John!
  • gnqanq
    Well said and well done.
  • Teflon93
    No conservative gives a fig what David Frum, David Brooks, Kathleen Parker, Rod Dreher, Conor Friedersdorf, Ross Douthat, or the rest of the Fauxcons have to say. They espouse no conservative principles anyone can identify beyond entrepreneurial self-promotion and even that they will not cop to.

    If you want to see "epemistic closure" on display, bring up Burke, Smith, Friedman, von Mises, Hayek, Kirk, or any other conservative thinker with them. They immediately dismiss the great lions of conservative ideological development as irrelevant---in a way that long-rotten Marx and FDR never seem to be for them.

    It's all about the NOW, baby---so long as the present allows them to claim conservatism is dead. Notice how the rejection of their preferred candidate in 2008 John McCain by the electorate doesn't even register in their brains. They simply cannot conceive that they who believe themselves to be political prognosticators par excellence don't know what the hell they are talking about---which is why they try to claim Palin was the dealbreaker. (Although some of them jumped ship and voted for the extremely leftist Obama before her selection anyway).

    Why anyone on the Right would ever listen to such people is beyond me. Perhaps we're too nice to win.
  • huckupchuck
    What's funny, Teflon93, is that I rarely see Burke, Smith, Friedman, von Mises, Hayek, Kirk, William F. Buckley, Jr., or any other serious conservative thinker brought up on blogs and news outlets other than the ones run by the likes of Frum, Sullivan, Friedersdorf, Bartlett. What passes for contemporary conservative orthodoxy today consist of those "great conservative thinkers" named Hannity, Beck, Coulter, Levin, and Limbaugh. Great entertainers and crowd rilers, but ones that have made zero contributions to serious conservative thought like the stalwarts you mentioned. As a liberal, I have a great deal of respect for the ideas of Burke, Hayek, Kirk, Friedman, etc. I've read them all in some capacity. They actually produce ideas that challenge the intellectual foundations of ideology. They give me pause about my own beliefs and actually make me think about why I believe the things I do and push me to better articulate and defend my own beliefs that run counter to theirs. The Coulters, Becks, and Limbaughs are devoid of ideas. I read their stuff and find it full of empty insults and populist panderings.
  • mvalve08
    good for you my friend,
    mvalveo8
  • Gordoni
    "In other words, we have a guy who doesn't like the conservative movement or the Republican Party, being billed as a real Republican"

    In other words, we have a guy who's realized the moral, ethical, and political bankrupcy of the charlatans, knaves, and fools calling themselves "conservatives" and "Republicans" (in any traditional Lincoln to Reagan via Roosevelt and Goldwater sense). Hooray to Mr. Frum.
  • Bmaninbama
    What bankruptcy? Examples please. Instead of calling us names, you could call us what we are...mainstream Americans.
  • Brilliant! About time we purged this Frum clown from the ranks.
  • Eazylogin
    Beautifully written. My favorite Frump moment was when he, in the process of trashing Mark Levin's L&T, compared himself to Milton Friedman! I knew the creep and his ugly wife have high opinions of themselves, but Milton? Fuck him.
  • Amos
  • brtex
    A+ John
  • Tynet2000
    Frum and Megham McCain are not Conservatives.They are opportunist.
  • Brianc2221
    Amen. I am so tired of "faux" conservatives like Frum who make big bucks and winning liberal accolades by trashing conservatives on cue.
  • seanoairborne
    Right on!The acorn doesn't fall far from the tree.Barbara Frum was Frums old lady (MOTHER) and she was a broadcaster for The CBC (Communist Broadcast System) in Canada for years.She hated everything that was American.All she did was trash the US at every turn in the road.And now we have her little lefty seed son,David,here in the US undermining everything that conservatives stand for.He's nothing but a fat assed rotten Canadian Quisling!He ought to be thrown out of the country.Fat assed SOB!
  • Very well said. Seems this is the meta-story du jour between Frum and Weigel.
  • RealityCheck
    Excellent decision. Please don't change your mind! Frum just needs to go away.
  • patsfaninpittsburgh
    It is interesting how some "conservatives" take this career path. Phillips was the first, then Jude Wanniski and Paul Craig Roberts. Now you have that Bruce Bartlett character doing the same.

    What is really funny is how quickly they all play the victim card. Perhaps that's the dividing line. So much for devotion to principles and convictions and paychecks and relavence.
  • I'd be happier if people would excise guys like this and Andrew Sullivan, etc, from their blog rolls. I mean Sullivan actually has something interesting and new to say once in a while, even if its frothing leftist insanity, but he's still a lunatic reactionary and needs to be dropped off more blog rolls.
  • Mondoreb
    It's all here and it's 100% correct.

    Note: Add Chris Buckley to the list of "Frum, Meghan McCain, Kathleen Parker, David Brooks, etc., etc." (Unless he was one of the "etc.")

    Frum's work used to be done by Kevin Phillips. After it was found out how profitable so-called conservative bashing conservatives could be, the field became very crowed. Expect those on the list to ramp up anti-conservative rhetoric as their chosen career path becomes more competitive.

    Of course, conservatives have little use for McCain (either or them), Frum, et. al. But as long as the MSM is around, they serve a useful (idiot) purpose.

    Good post.
  • Caseie
    Dead on about pseudo conservatives making their living trashing conservatives for $$$.
  • Bobnoxious
    Woof Woof Woof
  • I know of some "conservatives" who fall for Frum's schtick, like a rock. They are weary of the divide and looking for a way to begin the healing. Makes me feel bad when I see them so easily taken in by someone who clearly intends to exacerbate the problem.

    Membership-restrictions-wise -- is it even possible to be an extremist conservative? I'm not referring to the ideology; any ideology can eventually become extremist. But the way I see it, conservatism is nothing more than saying "Okay you have these things that have been tried before, they consistently lead to disaster, let's stop trying them." This is the essence of moderation. Extremism would be "No! We don't care what history says, we'll never take 'no' for an answer!" ...and that would be your liberals. And Frum.

    Anyone possessing the intellectual wherewithal to see this basic truth, sees all of this stuff as just a big waste of time. Sens. Kennedy & Byrd were or were not decent people, Sarah Palin leaves the 'g' off the ends of her words, George W. Bush smirks and swaggers, Keith Olbermann may or may not sound like Edward R. Murrow..."There's Just Something About" you-know-who. And John Hawkins is hostile to anyone who ever had an unkind thing to say about Limbaugh, who was hooked on painkillers. All these things are off-topic. The central question is, if an idea has been repeatedly shown by history to be bad, do we have the balls to admit it?

    And with the conversation sensibly confined to that central question, "conservative" is synonymous with "sensible and moderate." It has nothing it needs to prove to anybody.
  • huckupchuck
    Freeberg - Does your vision of conservatism include empire-building wars that lead to seemingly endless occupation? Or the practices of "enhanced interrogations" and actionable intelligence? Or the so-called "war on drugs"? We've got a lot of history about those kinds of adventures and behaviors, and none of this history supports in any way the conservative views of the current wars we are engaged in. By your own measure, you should be agreeing with the likes of Ron Paul on the whole Iraq/Afghanistan war effort. Also by your definition, folks like Sullivan and Frum and Bartlett are much more conservative than Bill Kristol and any of the Cheneys. Your kind of conservative often turns a blind eye to history believing that American exceptionalism means history just doesn't apply to a place like the United States.
  • Torolafson
    I don't agree. I think you're copping out to say it's just a popularity contest - "Hey, I'm 4x more popular than Frum, I should get a gig at CNN."

    Instead, the problem is more that 1) Frum's site may be small but he has a place in History as the speechwriter for a real Republican President. That matters to Americans who don't agree with your site's ideological slant.

    2) Most ideological types don't really understand how off-putting they are. If you think Frum is 'pretentious' - which nobody likes - just read some of the Big Time conservative blogs out there. They're not pretentious, but they drip with hostility and arrogance, and if you don't agree with them, you are a pariah.

    Frum is not known to liberals as someone who hates conservatives and wears a conservative nametag. It may seem that way to right wingers, but it's just not how he's perceived. But I don't think the writers on this site can read that and understand it.

    What Frum is, is someone who wants to win political power - which means he is willing to compromise. This, I know, enrages the True Believers who think Rush and Hannity are just tellin' it like it is.

    An easy way to tell if someone is full of it is this: If you think the MSM is 'liberal,' and they're hypocritical to refuse to admit it - then will you agree that Fox is biased for the Republican party? Fox says they're fair and balanced - they don't say they're here to counterbalance the left. They say THEY have no spin zones, etc.

    So come clean, devout right wingers - is Fox doing the same exact thing that the Hated MSM does? Can you admit that Fox is just as bad, because they proclaim they are unbiased yet are OBVIOUSLY biased anyway?

    Nah, I didn't think so. And THAT'S why no matter how many page visits you get, no one cares what you say except the True Believers who already agree with you. You guys are really stuck but you'll never see it. Now, go on - go into a feeding frenzy and just ignore every bit of this. But you know it's true, yes you do.
  • billdalasio
    Frum's site may be small but he has a place in History as the speechwriter for a real Republican President.


    Well George W. Bush actually WAS a "real Republican President". So, I guess, given his place in history, you should shut up and try to figure out what his views on politics are.
    Better still, Tom DeLay was a real Republican Senator. I guess any disagreement with him on your part is illegitimate.
  • If you think Frum is 'pretentious'...just read some of the Big Time conservative blogs out there. They're not pretentious, but they drip with hostility and arrogance, and if you don't agree with them, you are a pariah.

    Right about now I'm thinking you imagine yourself an emblematic martyr for the cause because of the handful of less-than-complimentary responses you got back.

    If I were to go out and look for blogs that reliably show this behavior you're describing, though, I'd make a bee-line for the left-wing ones. I'm just sayin'.
  • mightysamurai
    Instead, the problem is more that 1) Frum's site may be small but he has a place in History as the speechwriter for a real Republican President. That matters to Americans who don't agree with your site's ideological slant.


    So...you're saying David Frum's columns appeal to liberals and not to conservatives.

    So...why is it Hawkins should have accepted Frum's website into Conservative Hive again?

    2) Most ideological types don't really understand how off-putting they are.


    Yes, I agree. People like David Frum (and you) don't understand how off-putting they are.
  • seanoairborne
    NO~!Fox is not totally a voice for the right wing!And no matter how many flowery assed words you use to justify the lefty overslant on the other networks of the MSM you can't deny the fact that every time Fox has a right wing commenter on they either put a left wing nut on with them or follow up in the next segment with a lefty.If you don't believe this just watch Fox some time instead of getting your talking points from the MSM!

    I watch them all and I can tell you I get nauseated watching MSNBC<cnbc<abc<cnn< ,about="" 90="" about="" action="" affirmative="" and="" any="" anything="" are="" at="" cabinet="" cheek="" conservative="" droning="" etc,etc,etc="" his="" house!there="" how="" in="" is="" minions="" negative="" networks.<br="" obambi="" obstructionists="" of="" on="" or="" other="" pct="" point="" racists="" represent="" republicans="" the="" they="" those="" time,nobody="" to="" turn="" us="" view="" while="">
    All you have to do is watch any of the above mentioned dweebs any time of the day or night and you'll know what I'm speaking about here.You can deny it all day and night,as most lefties do,but the proof of the pudding is in the eating.Have some pudding,idiot!</cnbc<abc<cnn<>
  • StanW
    I'll be happy to tell you how we feel about Fox news, Torol, but I promise you won't like it at all!
  • TheDickNixon
    If you think the MSM is 'liberal,'


    Just ask Chris Matthews, Olberman, and Maddox.
  • Riddlemethis
    Frum is a douche.
  • Politicalbyline.com's Alexa rating is:

    * Alexa Traffic Rank: 823,308

    I hate you both... ;-P
  • I don't even get a ranking, my blog is that small heh heh
  • Djk
    Frum is not frum
  • Wow..... I believe Charles Johnson is still in the hive though, because I still see links to his blog in that RSS feed Ad thingy on Blogads... (Mr. Hawkings knows what I am referring to, I hope...)
  • rdbrewer
    That was good.
  • billdalasio
    And for anyone curious, this little bust on Frum

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Yd0Krz3q9k

    is just an example of why Red Eye is the best comedy on television.
  • thirteen28
    Awe.

    Some.
  • w3bgrrl
    Logical. Which means Frum will probably have a disproportionate, emotional outburst in response.
  • BillStevens54
    Saying you are open-minded and then oust anyone who dares criticize the sacred cows of the right is beyond laughable.
  • baoxian
    Constructive criticism is always welcome on the right. What Frum does is mocking, deliberate mischaracterization, and ideological undercutting of conservative principle.

    Read some of his crap. He's for big, powerful, authoritative government as long as it keeps the economy going. He despises social conservatism and religion in every form. His understanding of foreign policy ends outside hotel ballrooms. There's more phony in his writing than in a Holden Caulfield soliloquy.
  • Michael Sheridan
    Re: your first paragraph, although I'll concede constructive criticism may be welcome in some places on the right, I don't believe it is as commonly accepted as it is on the left. The left is famously at odds with itself and has been at least since Jimmy Carter and probably longer. Even the highest profile TV personalities on the left (Olbermann, Maddow, Stewart, Colbert) criticize the Democratic leadership at times to a degree I've never noticed from personalities on the right looking at Republicans. Of course, they generally wait until a candidate is actually in power before pointing out warts, but warts are often not as visible beforehand.

    However, your second paragraph regarding Frum's ideology is absolutely spot on. "Big, powerful, authoritative government as long as it keeps the economy going" and automatic support for Israel do appear to be Frum's consistent themes. Anything else is contingent. Those on the left who agree with some of his criticisms of the problems of the right too often ignore the fact that he is not at all motivated by conviction when writing on those issues, but by expediency. If he still saw social conservatism and religion as net vote getters, he'd be all for them. He sees them as net vote losers, so he's not.
  • evensteve
    Olberman and maddox are way left. Stewart only leans slightly left but skewers the current administration very often , and also more effectively than the right, just as he skewered the previous administration. Watch his show before you put him in the camp of Olbermann and Maddow.
  • Michael Sheridan
    Oh, I do watch Stewart. I much prefer him to Olbermann, who specializes in rants, self-righteousness, and ego. Rachel Maddow is another story. Although I believe Maddow attempts to be honest in her reporting, she definitely has an agenda in her choice of what she reports on and makes no bones about her liberal POV. Her humor is generally the worst part of her show. I believe Stewart personally leans more than a little to the left, but his primary agenda is to entertain (i.e., his politics are evident, but subsidiary to the point of The Daily Show, which is skewering the foibles of the powerful and influential in general).
  • w3bgrrl
    You only paid half-attention to what Hawkins wrote, and then argued a strawman. Hawkins didn't say that he IS open-minded, he said he TRIES to be open-minded.

    Strawmen arguments are for the weak. Are you weak, sir?

    So, Bill. How much publicity are you willing to give someone who is openly trying to destroy everything you believe in? Let's gauge your open-mindedness, shall we?
  • StanW
    Open-minded does not mean "accepts all viewpoints without passing judgement on any of them". It is possible to be willing to hear all viewpoints without automatically cedeing your principles.

    But I agree that throwing someone out of your movement that agrees 99% of the time and only has a problem with an issue or two is not wise. In fact, Joe Lieberman were discussing this topic just the other day
  • huckupchuck
    Hey, Stan - Who threw Joe Lieberman out of the movement? Didn't he decide to leave on his own when he didn't win out in a primary election. Lieberman is most welcome in the Democratic Party; and, in fact, he still caucuses with the Democrats. So while his views on some issues caused him to lose standing with the Democrats in his state (and nationally), your example of Lieberman as some kind of rejected pariah by liberals just doesn't really hold so much water in this case.
  • StanW
    Actually Huck, Lieberman was rejected by the Party in Connecticut. The party supported his Democrat opponent and stripped him of his leadership position. He was forced to run as an Independent. When he won convincingly, the cowardly Democrats begged him to caucus with them.

    Lieberman is the perfect example of being the standard-bearer for the party, disagreeing on a single issue, and being an outcast. He most assuredly did not leave on his own.

    Hope you and the misses are well and oil-free. Please take care of yourself.
  • Zipty
    kind of like being a liberal and claiming to be the most open-minded and tolerant around, and then giggling at the Playboy article on which conservative women would be on your "hate-fuck" list, is that what you meant? or is it more like saying you are liberal and for women's rights, but turn a blind eye to Islamic tendencies to child marriage, female genital mutilation, and honor killings. Is it more like that?
  • Your post just goes to how little YOU understand Frum and conservatives, and the differences between them.
  • willpeir
    It was one thing twenty years ago to go along with the "Trust me, I'm Conservative," line.

    But now? When American virtues are even less understood, the cultural wars even more shrill, and for too long we have had too many GOP politicians and "Conservative" reports more interested in the latest cocktail party than the Republic? I have no time, no money, and no interest for them.
  • TheDickNixon
    Maybe Frum can get a gig with Huffington Post, Ko$, or Little Green Footballs. He'd fit right in with those fine folk.
  • Michael Sheridan
    Speaking as a regular reader of DK and an occasional reader of HP, I can say that although he'd fit right in on HuffPo, he would be eaten alive were he to show up on the Great Orange Satan. Sure, we enjoyed the schadenfreude of reading his Waterloo post, but not only is he not one of us and doesn't pretend to be, too many of us cannot stand the guy. Now, were we talking about some of the writers for The American Conservative, it'd be different. Daniel Larison would be welcome anywhere.
  • Well said, sir!
  • Blog Dog
    I don't think he misspelled "ad." I believe he meant "add" as in "add FF to the hive."
  • gfchicago
    Good grief what are you the spelling police? It doesn't make the article any less readable.
  • Blog Dog
    No, I'm just responding to those who accused him of a spelling error I don't think he made. The article is spot on.
  • baoxian
    Let me consolidate the above into something somebody of Frum's intellect can understand:

    You're a chump and a pretender, Frum. Nobody likes your petty, backstabbing, phony writing and you're a universal joke on the right. Your blog sucks, and nobody from here would be visiting it anyways, so Hawkins actually saved you some cash by telling you to get lost.

    Give us a visit when your talent catches up with your ego...maybe you can keep up in the comments section by then.
  • billdalasio
    If anyone ever wants proof that RINO is not just a sneer for moderate Republicans, they need look no further than David Frum. There is no shortage of moderates who either have support from conservatives (e.g. Scott Brown) or at least a respectful hearing from conservatives (e.g. Rudy Giulianni). The moderates I cite are able to reach a mutually respectful acknowledgement of one anothers' views with conservatives and can move to pursue common points of agreement. The David Frums, the Arlen Specters and the the Lincoln Chafees of the world view conservatives as political cannon fodder who need to shut up and get with the(ir) program.
  • Not to mention that he's just a big Poindexter anyway.

    The case against David Frum is that he was only "with" the conservative movement when conservatives were in the ascendancy. With the Second Coming of the One, he read the demographics and bailed. Good riddance, sir.
  • Sluggo
    Frum has passed his shelf life. I hear the libs are always looking for smelly cheese, maybe he should just join the netroots clan.
  • Well said!
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